Should Capcom shoulder more responsibility for getting people into FGs?

I wonder how many people who actually worked on the development team for SF4 could actually do Abel’s step kick in any four frame move combo.

Also I am told that Capcom didn’t know about plinking when they made SF4 (or at least, the arcade version of it). I wonder what balance changes in super/AE/ultra would have entailed if plinking didn’t exist.

But like Kane said, SF4 on the whole does not have a high execution barrier. People shudder at links (pretty much all links, not one frame links) but they don’t really see that when they start to play, and furthermore anyone that can do links can beat a day-1 beginner without using links simply because they’ve played enough for it to not matter. The point for beginners is moot, and most of them understand that just fine.

Yeah, my friends are afraid to play older fighting games since the execution is harder, but I love that. Thats why I play and love KOF, the moves are fun and the characters are cooler anyway.

Ono actually stated in an interview that he wanted the controls for SFIV to be more lenient because they didn’t want stick players to have a significant advantage over people who used other controllers, and that they wanted more of a focus on strategy and tactics than execution:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2009/feb/12/gameculture-xbox

On making a game for the hardcore vs making a fighting game that sells:

Basically, if you create the best game you can and it still doesn’t sell, what reason is there for the company to fund a sequel?

On the philosophy behind the SFIV:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2009/feb/12/gameculture-xbox

They’d have a better product if they had better in-game tutorials, like VF4:Evo did in giving quests and rewards for completing many aspects of the game over and over again. Trial modes now are usually frustrating things to get out the way more than helpful. Interesting quests would be like ‘win 5 matches beating your opponent using only normal attacks that barely touch your opponent’ to emphasize footsies.

And the AI. wth. they need to buy whatever technique VF used to capture human players’ tendencies and make use it here.

There’s a LOT they could do to improve customer experience that has nothing to do necro’ing old sprites from the 80s

I find hillarious that they say that they wanted to please their most hardcore fans when they keep weakening the fireball game with each sf sequel after the sf2 series :lol:

I just said, in another thread, that fighting game devs don’t take us(mostly Western people) seriously. This is for many different reasons.

Now apply that logic to the business side of Capcom, whose only concern is making sure the game sells millions and wiping their ass with our money. You think they give a fuck about if you know how to play or not?

WE have to get more people into fighting games. We have to get our friends and different people we meet into them who also play video games and link them to beginner videos and tournaments so they see how fun and rewarding playing them are. Then our scenes will get bigger and tournaments will get better. We also need more news stations to cover our scenes, any type of media, internet, twitter, yt channels, just get our selves out there and let people know theres scenes and tournaments for this stuff.

If you think no one will be interested in this just by watching the news then why are you even here reading this? Get serious and get your friends into this stuff. We can help our communities, not just fgc community but general community with how these games are so socially driven at their best.

This is both really sad but completely understandable

That’s horse shit about stick players having advantage over pad. I could play on pad in 98 and do most of the executional shit and niggas saying they’re making inputs more lenient for pad players.

PS1 Pad.

Nuff said

I agree, though I do concede that a stick has certain advantages, you can do all the same shit on a pad.

We get threads like these a lot in the SF4 section, and I don’t understand people who think that SF4 is difficult to get into. I know dudes who had no experience with 2D fighting games who became excellent players in SF4. One dude in particular he was playing mostly anime fighters, he started playing when Super came out and now he’s one of the best Viper player in Europe.

A lot of top players in SF4 have started their career in 09, they can compete with players who have 20 years of experience playing fighting games competitevly.

I believe it was mentioned in the old EGM reveal article.

I think what the OP is saying is that SF4 should’ve had Smash Bros lv of accessibility, or make a fighter with that easy level of entry. The casual gamer really doesn’t care to take time to practice a fighting game. They want to be able to play right away with little to no practice. Just with the basics. I wouldn’t say put fighters on easy mode. but something to teach players how to play is a must. Maybe use the arcade mode as a hands on tutorial

Wednesday I played against a friend who is really good at TVC and he couldnt do moves in ST. Again, I think its BS that people can be good in the newer games but they dont have the execution required to play the older SF games. If 8 frames to do a special move was good enough back then then it should be good enough for newer games. Dont baby people and make them not want to try to get into the older games.

Do you realize how much of a contradiction these two comments are?

“We need to bring in more players.”
“If players cannot handle old fighting games they are babies.”

Getting people into old fighting games isn’t going to get people into fighting games in general.

Also this thing about “scenes”… There are actually very few significant “scenes” in the U.S. Those that exist are mainly in major metros. If you live outside of these places, you’ll have to travel quite a long distance to have any face-to-face social activity. Sorry, most of us can’t afford to travel all the way to LA or NYC. Especially not on a regular basis.

Lastly, the thing that would REALLY help the FGC is the elimination of all the hate and elitism. Constantly making fun of people that aren’t good, or that rage out… This doesn’t “win friends and influence people”. You only foster more hate and elitism by participating in the “scrubquotes” thread.

In his defense @OrochiDemon‌ said we have to teach them how to play while introducing them into the FGC. Babying them will not get them to play at their best. Where’s the fun in that? It’s a community that encourages people to try their best. I don’t see this hate or elitism often in scenes, also the scrub quote thread is just there to make fun of idiots who don’t know what they’re talking about(whilst being ignorant in knowledge), not people who are beginner level at the game.

Ive been playing fighting games seriously for almost a year, took me half a year to really decide I really wanted to get good. I just lie kolder games in general, and so I looked at the older games because they have less mechanics and theyre stripped down. (Plus I dont have a PS3 or 360) Hell, all you need to do to learn ST to watch the ST TOL from 2012, then the SF 25th anniversary finals, and then the recent qualifiers at Super Arcade. The older games are figured out so its easier to me to get into them, and theyll make you have better execution at the same time.

I dont think its elitist to hate on newer games that (Ill keep saying), are babying people. Seriously, if the real motion for srk is the way its written in a booklet then it shouldnt have to be given a short cut.

I found out recently that you can baroque out of recovery of fireballs in TVC. THATS TOTAL BS, and will only make people not want to get into other fighting games where you have to accept recovery. Instead of making games bring out the best in people theyre making more and more shortcuts to win through scrubby ways and non-fundamentals. Instead if they just made simpler games that werent filled with ways to make the game play “more accessible so beginners can beat experts”, then itd make people truly better. These short cuts are spoiling people and they dont want to try other games I think because of that, especially Super Turbo and KOF where execution is a must.

I want fighting games to be huge and top players to make hundreds of thousands of dollars, but the way Capcom has handled SF4, it hurt things I think. Average people dont care about game mechanics, they care about characters, think of how many people hated Decapre being the fifth character and how long they stretched it out? I tell people why they made Ultra and the vortex that was plaguing high level play, and they didnt care. I tell them that games can only be tested by the company for so long till its released and then THOUSANDS of people play it and find things they couldnt have possibly have found on their own, they didnt care. Eventually the Proximity Option Select would have made AE 2012 unplayable at tournaments, again they didnt care.

Right now things arent really growing at the casual level. @franked if you live in a small town, try to get a meet up together. You shouldnt have to travel to big cities to play, just build up a scene where you live. Seriously, I think the FGC is HORRIBLE at PR work. We shouldnt just be advertised and shown on video game sites, we should be on local news, we should be doing charity work, we should be doing anything good to get the word out so people know we exist. The FGC shouldnt be seen as a Masonic Esoteric brotherhood( seriously, we need to find a way to bring in more girls even if they dont like the violence), it should be open to all. If we dont advertise no on will know whats going on.

It would be nice if companies made it clearer to casuals that the “fight” is what counts, not winning in particular. It’s certainly a hard concept for casuals. In most other genres, notably RPGs and platformers, you aren’t jumping through hoops on level 5 because that is the true meaning of the game, but the system of advancing the game forward and progressing. You don’t expect to lose in those games because you are given tools to deal with new challenges, creating progression. In a fighter, you gain a better mastery of your toolset to face opponents with a clearer mastery of their own tools. Your L Hadouken always retains the same frames and properties, unless it’s one of “those” characters. It doesn’t become faster or more powerful as you win, but you become better at using it properly.

People see online ranks and think “If I play X matches, I’ll level up!” But experience doesn’t translate to your rank, but your own abilities. Ranking up isn’t becoming better, it’s entering a new, more deadly level of play. That’s what people going into the genre need to understand. Your progression isn’t something tracked in game or on screen, but the shift in how you play.

First off, its kind of absurd to task developers with making their games such that it will spark an interest in an older game. That is DEFINITELY not their responsibility.

Second, SF2 was what sparked what we have today. 8 frames to do a special move was just the arbitrary number Capcom decided at the time. There wasn’t decades of fighting game history to pore through to make judgments on what reasonable input windows are. If I were making a fighting game right now, I sure as fuck would make special move input windows more lenient than in ST.