. . . combos
What about on wakeup? Would the lk be better if you are looking for just the bottom hit to occur?
well in theory you’re right!.
BTW, any advices vs Gief?, i have serious troubles against the russian guy, that fucking low roundhouse and the holds piss me off!
Jumping hp is really good if you do try to jump at him, since it beats lariat, and you should be able to jump away if you hit too high(im not sure on this) to avoid spd.
Mix fake hados(crouch then st.lp), hados, and walk forward fakes to sweep to knock him down and away. If you think he’s gonna jump sweep is a good option(spaceing dependant), and if he starts using his trip guard(falling knees) then use st.mp/st.hp.
The most important part of the fight is KEEP HIM OFF YOU! Lol, Gief vs anyone is 9-1 gief if he can stay on you.
Just try this stuff and get a hang for when/why it works and when/why it doesn’t. Don’t hado when he gets close because of lariat, and mix up hado speeds to beat green hand along with the fakes.
I find guile has a better time keeping gief out, then ken does, but i feel like ken has a better job keeping gief off of you then guile does.
Ken’s Air Throw & Grab Tricks
[media=youtube]JApI8wUJQgA[/media]
(source: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=140004)
vs. Cammy
1:15 in Ken’s Kick Air Throw vs. Cammy’s Hooligan Throw Special
vs. Blanka
4:10 in Ken’s Forward grab (“knee grab”) vs. Blanka’s Super
vs. T. Hawk
4:21 in Ken’s Kick Air Throw vs. T. Hawk’s Dive Special
vs. E. Honda
4:30 in Ken’s Kick Air Throw vs. Honda’s Sumo Splash (“buttdart”) special
oooooh woow Coth, thanks for the advices!, very usefuls!
So I just got done watching [media=youtube]zSS4XqnHYJw"[/media] video of Aniken and his ridiculous skills. The one thing that was truly on display was his walking Dragon Punch wherein he walks towards an opponent and throws out a l.DP to stuff any poke attempts. After truly conditioning them to fear the DP, he switches it up and goes for throws. Would anyone have any tips on how to properly execute such a strategy and not look like a total scrub who is just throwing out random DPs?
Psychic Shoryukens are incredibly hard to do. Japanese players like Aniken and Daigo make it look easy. I’ve tried copying it too, but more often than not, I end up whiffing or getting punished. It’s easier online to psychic Shoryuken, but is very risky offline.
Yeah, you just have to know what the opponent wants to do and when. Its a guessing game, and its great. . . if you can read your opponent that well. Otherwise stick to more solid strategies/zone traps.
Of course bring the knees too.
First off, thanks for the answers. Not to be a total narcissist (this isn’t the Vega thread after all), but after playing this game for as long as I have (since World Warrior for SNES) I would say that I’m above average at psychic DP’s. In fact, using psychic DP’s is usually a key facet in my game plan against charge characters who have full screen attacks (Blanka’s ball, Dictator’s psycho crusher, etc.). The trick for me to getting psychic DP’s to work more often than not was just experience and knowledge of the match up. What I’m trying to get at is somewhat deeper than that.
In the video, Aniken explicitly baited moves just to Dragon Punch them (and when no such move appeared, he simply threw). My inquiry was concerned with the actual process of baiting to punish and not so much the process of reacting to an opponent’s move. Please tell me if any of that makes even a modicum of sense.
Furthermore, he used the walking Dragon Punch more so as a rush down technique. I’m also trying to utilize this technique in rush down situations, but the problem for me is that I can’t quite seem to condition my opponent in order for them to stick out normals to punish or do so in the nick of time so that the corrisponding throw attempt doesn’t connect.
Well…think about what you’re trying to do.
You’re trying to get them to throw out a move…why? What’s the bait? What do you want them to think you’re doing? What type of move would you like to see them do that would be easy to DP or, even better, DP on reaction? What if they don’t take the bait? What are you in a position to do at that point?
The above is that “next level” aspect of fighting game skill I like to call…“mind games”. It’s all about getting the opponent to do what you want them to do so that you can win faster. Remember, though, that some people already know this and are trying to play mind games with you, too. So, in the end, it really is all about reading your opponent and making them think that you’re doing something both practical and punishable so that you can practically punish them into night night land. Check your bait.
That’s kind of what I meant, someone who doesn’t just stick stuff out will get thrown but punish an srk and vice versa. I don’t like using them too much, since they aren’t as hard to punish as some people think. Its unexplainable how some people pull that off consistently.
That being said, if you notice, aniken will take a lot of damage to bait those attacks and get something going. In some of his other fights I’ve watched, it just doesn’t work against some people. It depends on whether you want to take the risks or not. He certainly does. I personally don’t.
As far as rush down srks. It seems like a double edge sword. Its good when you hit them sure, but whiffing carries risk, and if they block it your safe, but not necessarily at advantage.
BTW, I’m not arguing with you, just giving you my input on psychic srks.
To answer your original question, just mix it up and you won’t look like a scrub. Sometimes I can pull it off, but if you mix in ticks and hados, no one’s gona think you’re a scrub. Now if all you did was walk up dps, well, i’m not sure what to say.
I’d like to try doing aniken’s max throw range throws. That’s like the level 8 cpu opponent.
My secret to psychic SRKs:
I just spam jab shoryu with Ken and yell “Too predictable!” when I actually connect.
Honestly, I don’t think Aniken uses psychic Shoryukens very much. If you watch him [media=youtube]MeuwWiDTKsw&feature=related&#t=0m58s"]vs Valle’s O.Sagat, one of the top US players, he does maybe 1 psychic Shoryuken (1:00). At 1:13, it looks like another psychic Shoryuken, but it’s actually Aniken’s amazingly fast reaction to Valle’s back jump. If you watch this match vs yaya’s N.Sagat (5:22), he catches another jump back in the corner with a ridiculously fast Fierce Shoryuken. Vs yaya, Aniken does do quite a few psychic Shoryukens, some whiff, some connect, but at 6:13 is the best example, I think, of a psychic Shoryuken. Here’s another great example of a psychic Shoryuken by [URL=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A7S7ST7nlY&#t=7m15s”[/media] at 7:16.
Every other Jab Shoryuken in the Aniken vs Valle match is a reversal attack on wakeup or as a mixup after a blocked, meaty Hadoken, which you can see at the end of the 3rd round. The other mixup being a throw or a sweep, there’s nothing psychic about that, I do that all the time. I think maybe that’s what you’re referring to?
Honestly, thanks to each and everyone of you that took the time to respond to my questions. Admittedly, I posed the question before actually doing the research myself and seeing the practical uses of such a technique. All I can say is that while I do use psychic DP’s quite a bit, they are more in an anticipatory method and not in a way that Aniken demonstrated. That being said, like Coth_X mentioned, it depends on the person one is facing more than the tactic itself. Some players will call your bluff and punish a whiffed DP or throw out a move to beat a throw attempt while others don’t.
One other question I had concerned the Hurricane Kick. Are combos ending with the tatsu even worth doing? Every time I connect with a mk or hk tatsu, I am left open for a counterattack. I do mash throw in the hopes of a follow up knee bash or other throw, but there’s always the risk of getting counter thrown or even worse getting comboed in retaliation. However, simple combos that end with tatsu do do significant damage and if the Hurricane Kick is dodged, you get out for free (if you’re not facing a corner, that is). What’s your guys’ take?
First, before fully answering your question, I would suggest that you read my HDR Cross-up, Link, and Combo FAQ on GameFAQs.com. Second, I would point you to a tool that I reference a whole lot…T.Akiba’s SF2 Frame Data translated into English by NKI. It’s on NKI’s webpage at http://nki.combovideos.com and…yeah…you’ll want to watch the videos, too. 
Gooooood stuff. Anyway, you can look up the actual frame data on Ken’s Hurricane Kick and find out for yourself what may be going on in your use of it.
Ok…so…short answer to your question: Yes…Ken’s Hurricane Kick is worth using in combos especially if you get the last kick to connect. Why? Hitting with the last kick puts you right in front of your opponent with both of you recovering at the same time. A frame-by-frame analysis reveals that you actually get a 3 frame advantage. 3 frames is enough time for you to play a little mind game with your opponent that can set up a few very damaging options. If you look at the frame data, one of Ken’s moves can actually combo after a Hurricane Kick…the zero frame startup :hp: Shoryuken. Oh…if you haven’t seen the TZW Combo Video Vol.7 (or read the TZW Combo FAQ on GameFAQs.com)…you should. Ken does this combo to Zangief: J.:hp:, cl.:hp: XX :hk: Hurricane Kick, :hp: Shoryuken. On speed 3, this may or may not be possible due to frame-skipping, but it’s something to know about. But, per some of the videos I’ve seen on YouTube, you can get that last kick to connect if you simply do j.:hp:/:hk:, cr.:mp:/:mk: XX :hk: Hurricane Kick.
So…anyway…what can you do after that last kick of the Hurricane Kick hits? I actually elaborated on this mix-up a few pages back. :hp: Shoryuken may or may not combo on speed 3, but it will certainly counter anything but blocking from them. :lp: or :mp: Shoyruken if you want a lower risk way of beating what they may try to do to you. Cr.:mk: hits low and, of course, can be cancelled into anything you want. Personally, I would go SF3:NG Ken on 'em and do cr.:mk: XX :hk: Hurricane Kick. If they didn’t get dizzy the first time they were in the Hurricane Kick, they should on the second time. Once you train them to block after being hit by the last kick of the Hurricane Kick, you have them where you want them. Use :r:+:mk: overhead or any of the Krazy Kicks into the overhead if you think they’ll block low. But, if you know they’re going to sit there and block high or low…that’s when you start the Knee Shenanigans!
Is that enough evidence for you that the Hurricane Kick is a good move? Especially now that it’s faster and can connect more consistently, hitting your opponent with this move is a great way of turning the momentum of the match in your favor.
I don’t feel that the risk/reward on his ground tatsu is all that great OJ. Sure its great in combos, but mistimed an your you are gonna leave yourself open.
Goldenarch, if you are like OJ and you want to take the risk then go for it, if you feel its too risky depending on the character/player skill, then you can always do an lk tatsu, which is still safe and puts you out of throw range too.
If your using aniken as inspiration, it doesn’t look like he uses it all that much either. :wgrin:
Of course we know OJ’s a combo king. :wgrin:
I wish Damdai would comment on this because I love the way he used the Hurricane Kick against John Choi at Evo. It looked like he had the spacing on it mastered.
I saw the fights but i don’t remember him using it. Of course I saw a lot of that evo stuff, and they don’t allow the vids to be shown :annoy:
Once again, thank you both for responding; as per usual, you’ve given me quite a bit to think about. Speaking of Hurricane Kicks, do you guys use them at all to get close to Sim or Guile? I personally never do, but it’d be nice to get some more perspective on the subject.
They can be very situational. Against guile maybe lk tatsu, or sim mk tatsu. You have to be very careful doing that though.