Any of Blanka’s Rolling Attacks.
Doesn’t like 25% of the cast have them, what are they others?
Let’s see:
Akuma’s dp’s hit on the first frame
Blanka’s rolls
Ken’s fierce dp
I can’t think of any others. Is this really it?
http://nki.combovideos.com/flame.html
Checking the frame data, both of Zangief’s Lariats (I really should’ve known that one) are the only other moves that hit on the first frame.
My jumps come out. So if you just hold UF after knee bash you should always land with a safe jump on most characters?
The only first frame hitting reversals are Blanka’s Vertical Roll and Ken’s Fierce Shoryuken. Akuma or Ryu don’t hit on the first frame. Technically all wakeup reversal throws (including commands like SPD and Ochio) can grab grounded, non-invincible meaty attacks on the first frame too, cuz they have 0 startup frames. Don’t know about Lariats tho.
Yep, doesn’t work on some characters like Chun Li. Coth put up a list of which chars in this thread, I can’t remember off the top of my head.
Yes. Except for akuma, ken, blanka, and maybe gief.
You shouldn’t get that close to gief anyways.
I’m fairly certain akuma’s dp’s hit on the first frame. I remember damdai saying you couldn’t safe jump him because of that. Sirlin didn’t make a single mention to akuma’s dp. If I’m wrong that’s fine, but against good akuma’s I can never get a safe jump against his dp, maybe its online lag but it seems like it hits on the first frame.
That’s why Im very careful jumping at akuma, due to that and the fact they are invincible.
Lariat, may not be reliable for gief anyways. since it doesn’t hit low.
Am I reading the Frame Data chart incorrectly? I looked for any attack that wasn’t a throw that had a startup value of zero. According to the chart, Akuma’s DPs start out with 4 hitting frames. Maybe that’s supposed to be 4 startup frames like Ryu’s Shoryuken? I could believe that.
Hmmm, Coth you could be right. Gonna need confirmation. Try to find that Damdai post and quote it here.
Sorry damdai didn’t say it, but this should suffice.
[quote=brian]
-guaranteed super setups
-all 3 srks hit on first frame so you cant safe jump him
-fully invincible srks.
-crazy normal hitboxes
-hurricane kicks that do almost all of the things Ryu’s do, but if they hit you can juggle for huge damage
-can teleport and escape bad situations
-gets automatic large amounts of chip damage from red fireball
-better fireball recovery than Ryu
-air fireball for free jump ins in many situations
-airfireball for huge extra runaway ability; block an airfireball, and you generally have to block a ground fireball next so youre sent back to full screen.
-wins all fireball fights because he can airefireball his opponents projectile and throw his own immediately with no risk
-airfireball has no landing frames, so if you walk under one (at huge risk to yourself if he does a normal attack instead) you cant even combo him.
[/Quote]
Citations:
brian during the BAN akuma discussion pg 26 here.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=170255
brian and axel kelly during dealing with akuma pg 1 here.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=170710
Damdai may have said it somewhere, but its confirmed. Note its “after” 1st frame. Lol, as if you can safe jump him on that first frame.
Seriously what was sirlin thinking with the dps on akuma.
Its one startup frame and then all hitting frames. So yeah, that’s pretty much 4 hitting frames. That’s why I don’t ever bother with knee bash on akuma.
Thanks for the quotes Coth. I remember reading all those discussions, but I still think that safe jumps are possible on Akuma, cuz his Shoryuken doesn’t hit on the 1st frame. It might be damn near impossible for anyone to do, but technically, a safe jump will land safely, cuz Akuma’s Shoryuken doesn’t hit on the 1st frame as that is his startup frame. If Akuma were to block instead, the safe jump would hit him on the first frame post-wakeup.
As far as I understand anyway.
Meh…I’m no pro or anything, but I believe a perfectly timed reversal Shoryuken by Akuma will not hit a perfectly timed safe jump. But Ken and Blanka will, cuz they make safe jumps “unsafe”. They go straight from wakeup frames (which are un-hittable), to hitting frames (in Ken’s case, also un-hittable), and there isn’t a single frame where the enemy could land safely. Whereas Akuma’s 1 frame of startup leaves an opportunity for the opponent to land safely.
I could be wrong. This is just theory fighter anyway, but in real life, safe jumps against Akuma are impossible. But that’s still not gonna stop me from doing them against an opponent with less-than-perfect reversals. = )
lol, well more power to ya if you can make that 1/60th of a second work. However, if you kicked him like you would ryu, doesn’t that take more than 1 frame? Hid dps might as well hit on the first frame.
Still though, i prefer beating akuma to the punch rather than jumping at him, since his jap dp’s invincibility. That and after looking at the review of the madcats stick, I guess I need to save a little bit.
I was looking at frame data and ken doesn’t have a first frame hitting dp in sf iv 
Actually, it’s 1/30th of a frame. Still sounds daunting, but thanks to things like Piano Methods and such, getting that is easier than it sounds.
I’m not sure I understand the question at the end, though. Are you asking why it wouldn’t work on Ken but works on Ryu? Ryu wouldn’t hit you on a safe jump because his DP takes, like, 3 or 4 frames to start hitting. The trick is that he is invincible in the first few frames so your move would miss him, but in the 3 frames it takes to stat up, you actually LAND so you can block. If they don’t DP, they aren’t invincible for those two frames, so your Jump Attack connects. Ken’s DP hits on the very first frame, so there is no small window to land and Block in time. You just have to make sure you punch/kick early so your first/foot is already in them by the time they get up.
- James
We were talking about akuma, and all of his dps have 1 frame startup. So you can’t really safe jump unless you can do it within one frame. They don’t hit on the first frame, but one frame is drastically different than 3 or 4, which is what ryu has. Ken’s fierce dp hitting on the first frame isn’t that much different than akuma.
Whoops! Sorry about that. ^^ Just read the last few posts, and I assumed it was about Ken being this is the Ken thread. ^^ My bad… carry on!
- James
What is up with Ken’s funky kicks? In Vanilla ST you could use whichever kick you wanted in any order, now I do one kick and if I move into another, I always get the Forward funky kick. I am okay with the simplified motions but not at the expense of the options I used to have. That is freaking lame.
Example:
Vanilla ST
-f,df,d, funky kick -> qcf, funky kick -> hcf, funky kick all came out with their respective animations. I could do a few outside cresent kicks (hdr qcf+short) then do an outside cresent, (hdr qcf+forward) and mix up the funky kicks how I liked.
In HDR I can start with whatever kick I want, but every subsequent kick will be the inside cresent regardless of which kick I use.
Was this supposed to be that way?
Kinda weird. I don’t like that aspect of HDR Ken in the slightest.
Are you kidding? That was the worst part of ST Ken. If Remix disappeared tomorrow, and all I had left to play was classic ST, I wouldn’t main Ken anymore. All cuz of those crazy Crazy Kicks.
Hey Guys,
Just started playing HD on PS3. I was never an ST player. I’m a Hyper Fighting player.
How do you do Ken’s cr. strong or cr. fierce into super? Or Ryu’s cr. forward into super?
I have cr. short cr short super down… but the ones I described above are hard to do.
I read somewhere there was going to be a patch. The should remove Ken’s roundhouse crazy kicks because they get in the way of his roundhouse fireball game. Ken has potential to high tier , possibly even the best, but I forsee this being one of his downfalls. His roundhouse crazy kicks are useless. Someone please have it removed. Its hard enough walking forward and doing a roundhouse fireball… without accidently uppercutting.
There is also no solution against Ryu’s fierce fireball in close to mid range. I have asked that the makers of the game add an air hurricane kick that goes straight across using the short kick to semi-counter Ryu’s close range fireball attacks. Unless there is a counter… it will not be a fair match.
If anyone wants to play me, my brother’s PS3 screen name is Rodneykingg
Im usually playing as the red suited Ken.
Wait…you’re saying that if you do one Funky Kick using…say…short, if you continue to do Funky Kicks and change buttons (to either forward or roundhouse), you get the Funky Kick that you just did?
I thought Sirlin changed the Funky Kicks to the same inputs as in Capcom vs. SNK 2.
Quoted from Sirlin.net:
“Crazy kicks” have simplified joystick motions. Was: 1) f,df,d+ any kick, 2) qcf+ any kick and 3) hcf+ any kick. New motions: 1) qcf+short, 2) qcf+forward, 3) qcf+roundhouse.
Personally, I really like that change. It makes for much easier use of the kick you actually want and, generally, doesn’t get in the way of the other special moves you have.
Blitzfu: Are you serious. I am not sure you understood what I am saying. I like the easy input,. I dislike the lack of options. If I do short funky kick X 2, I want 2 short funky kicks. Not one short funky kick and one forward funky kick. That is how it is supposed to work.
Sort of like that. If you do ANY funky kick, then do ANY other funky kick after that, the next one will be a medium kick funky kick. So for example you can’t spam short funky kick. You would get 1 short funky kick then nothing but forward funky kicks even though you are activating the funky kick with short. So you can’t spam short funky kick then switch to roundhouse funky kick to counter a jump in cause you would get forward funky kick.
Forward funky kick is always your next funky kick regardless of the button you pressed. You have to wait then do the funky kick you want for it to come out.
that is the lame sauce.