All of this guy’s posts.
Remind me of haiku.
Or maybe he has
a sticky return key.
So like, wow this thread again eh.
I forgot to add, I want higher strength of non-EX SS to do more dmg.
mm… i dont think drills need tweaks, they are quite balanced (high reach - slow start up - quite safe on block/ low reach - fast start up - quite unsafe on block).
of course, EX drill needs more invencibility frames. Currently it is pathetic, even a few low punches or low kicks stuff it.
btw, what do you think about her jump forward?? i think is one of her disadvantages, she jumps too high but she doesnt advance enough (Chun jumps high but advances a lot).
this makes her very punishable against fireballers like Sagat or Ryu. Well, i didnt care about it if at least CAPCOM listened the rest of our complains…
Overhead. Easier Links. Comboable and/or no cancel Soul Throw.
I’m suprised no one has mentioned how ridiculously huge her hitbox gets on a missed Ultra. I once had a Rufus block my sham from half screen, counter with ultra, and rose started twitching madly and taking damage when maybe only one or two of his hit animations even got close to touching her, followed by his “Goodbye!” Last hit launching her into the air despite the fact that she was half screen away. My jaw hit the floor.
All her exs need to be improved, except for spark.
this
I do NOT want an overhead.
Honestly…If Rose gets an overhead, awesome. But its not my list. Reason? Her slide is a low hit, has range and is a great tool for Rose. Your gonna give her this and an Overhead? I kind of feel like her mixup game would be too good. Keep this out.
I think we need a few tweeks.
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HP reflect has 2 purposes in this game. Its to set up super, and to reflect fireballs. Fine, I can accept that. But I really think her EX should be special. I should be able to juggle a soul spark, or super, or (Getting greedy) an Ultra from this. I think that her Reflects are tough to tweak. I want her HP and EX to be easier to anti-air, but I can see why this would be tough. At the very lead, I should be able to soul throw afterwards.
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Keep Soul Sparks as they are. I like that. I do wish I had a bit more of knock back like in alpha 2. When I hit that in a combo i got some distance from my opponent. I’d like to this this again. I don’t feel safe using a lp Spark. I feel like Gief can SPD immediately after.
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Drills are okay as they are.
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Soul throw in some match up’s are useless. low jumpers you have to be perfect. All the throws should have the same priority with a difference in range. The EX should have snap and connect on ANY level of throw. Meaning if the person is out of range in a HP throw but in range of a lp throw…EX throw will hit. Vice Versa…if someones out of range with a lp throw and in range in a HP throw…EX through should hit. I’m not asking it to beat anything, but…i hate sailing right under someone. Likewise I hate having to mentally go “Shit, Should I c.HP or EX throw? Its on wake up so I can probally Ex. Drill”. Most characters have a reversal that they can sit on and go for it. (Granted this generates conditioning) I just hate when its clutch time and I need to make a split decision and I gotta choose btw 3 options. Shoto’s get to just say “Anti air!” (DP)
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Her super and ultra are fine. The only thing I’d like is her ultra to have more consistency. This might sound weird as her ultra is really good. But honestly…Some of her hits are very suspect. Make up your mind. Either it beats everything or gets beat by a certain type of attack.
Example. Cammy’s ultra went under my shamwow. Yet her regular drill doesnt… Viper has jumped in the air, I’ve ultra’d, and she’s Burning kicked me out of it. Gief can go through my ultra…and knock me out of it with a lariat. Sagat if timed too fast can sail over and through my Ultra with a TU. Same for a DP. I can go through fireballs, stop hurricane kicks in their tracks, and stop almost any air attack that is not directly on top of me, however…You can jump over it slightly with a DP? thats…just weird to me. Oh and the same goes for Balrogs headbutt. Its nice watching im fall on my shamwow and go right through it because I timed it a frame too late. I had him beat…I know what these players are gonna do in every situation. I’m a step ahead of them…Yet i get nothing to show for it.
Almost every time everyone goes “oh man I thought I was done for on that one”.
I’m not saying make it godly…but Some of the detection is very frustrating. Sometimes things work, sometimes they don’t. Just consistency is all I’m asking.
- Take out cancelling of the ST, thats just stupid.
Those are my two cents.
Responses in bold to Kail:
- “HP reflect has 2 purposes in this game. Its to set up super, and to reflect fireballs. Fine, I can accept that. But I really think her EX should be special. I should be able to juggle a soul spark, or super, or (Getting greedy) an Ultra from this. I think that her Reflects are tough to tweak. I want her HP and EX to be easier to anti-air, but I can see why this would be tough. At the very least, I should be able to soul throw afterwards.”
**I’d be happy if her EX ST merely had the most invincibility frames of all her moves. Because one guaranteed thing an opponent will do is try to poke you; and if it were an anti-poke (aside from ultra and super) might give me a real reason to use it.
I’d be happy with a piede after reflect too, or instead. that way you can combo it off any reflect.**
“I don’t feel safe using a lp Spark. I feel like Gief can SPD immediately after.”
you should never ever be using sparks at close range vs gief. When he gets meter, I don’t use sparks even from mid range because of EX hand.
- “Her super and ultra are fine. The only thing I’d like is her ultra to have more consistency. This might sound weird as her ultra is really good. But honestly…Some of her hits are very suspect. Make up your mind. Either it beats everything or gets beat by a certain type of attack.”
Sounds like you’re afflicted with random ultra disease. Some characters, by design, can bait you into wasting your ultra and you’ve got to learn when to wait for the right time. The other day I was playing a Sagat on my friend list, who’s really good, and he did a random mid-range c.mk (the baby step kick) and I punished it with the ultra because I knew I could. Timing is everything, and watching out for the starting frames of each character’s slow moves is probably the biggest key to landing the ultra. I suppose photographic memory is helpful in this case.
- “Take out cancelling of the ST, thats just stupid.”
that’s probably the reason why I’ve become accustomed to using drills to end combos, because so often, even if I do the half circle motion without a shortcut, I’ll get ST instead. I can’t say I agree with having it removed, because I don’t think it can be removed. I know Abel can cancel his sweep into wheel kick, which comparably is more useful I think it shows that certain normals are locked in to cancel into any special.
I have a hard time remembering that sparks yield different speeds and such. I’m used to being able to poke and fireball and bail out quick. Because of this, sometimes on a block string i’ll do this to get some distance.
Other times it comes out because of negative edge…eh.
I’m sorry…thats just silly to have in the game. canceling any move to soul throw is just flat out bad news bears. I mean, I cant cancel after a tatsu. Now before anyone says it, you cant cancel a move into a move or FADC if your in the air. This i Know. But if your gonna have a limitation like this, then dont give me things cant be done.
Fine…equal exchange. I’ll accept this if I can juggle into a ST. Because ST is a much underrated move. It’s a throw, and equates to a knockdown. Not only that, its a frustration move. Causes the opponent to make the assumption that air is out of the question. You might say “oh good players dont jump a lot”, but what I’m saying is…I’m forcing you to do what I want you to do…not what you wanna do.
I digress.
But Metro, I dont know about you but I use EX reflect a lot. Thats a game winner for me. People sleep on EX reflect. You know how many times a Shoto player thought they had a plan and I threw it back in their face (literally)? Nothing is better than…Hadouken, Hadouken, Hadouken. I get used to it…wait for it…wait for it…(Different sound)…GOT HIM! EX Reflect. Ryu charges in for the kill only to get burned. HA!
Its not often. But when it happens, its awesome.
With that being said…I have the bars to burn…give me more of a reason to use my EX moves other than Drill. The rest are just so unreliable.
I can only imagine how rewarding it feels, because I never use it. I either block, dodge, or soften the blow by shooting a normal spark when caught off guard. If it were impossible for an EX reflected projectile to be blocked, then I’d be a believer, but I’m just not gonna bother wasting my own bar, get the timing right, and to have what I thought was a good call, to get blocked or dodged. I realize if one is good enough they can absorb fireball after fireball so they’ll have meter to burn, but either I’m not that good to time EX reflect, or I just don’t think it’s very rewarding.
Eventually I’ll hit the training room to get all my reflects down. I still have trouble with HP reflect even though start up timing is just a frame faster than M and L. EX being 5 frames faster? just nutty to consider using. For now I’ll stick with the same old grab bag of basic tricks.
its frustrating how Rose feels like a missed opportunity.
most of the chars are very boring to use because playing with them means to spam a safe move or tactic. This is why even sometimes i get frustrated with Rose im not able to switch to any other char because the ones who have a rich gameplay style similar to Rose are overused (Ryu), and the rest are simply brain dead boring (Balrog low punch spammage, Bison devils reverse spammage, Sagats fireball barrage…).
maybe i should give a try to Cammy, Viper, or Abel, dont know… (i hate Elf).
Rose has a lot of potential for a rich gameplay style, but CAPCOM decided to nerf her to death :sad: i really hope this changes in the next SF iteration.
Reflects need to be tweaked in order to be useful to other things different than just reflecting fireballs. EX one could be used like AAir/reversal, HP could be used like a really useful juggle, LP should inflict more damage and then it could be really be used like a push back move (currently it doesnt worth, it just better to stick to combo into drill “ad nauseam”).
SF4 has been a good start, but in order to reach excellence, CAPCOM really have to squeeze their brains to balance the overall game to the very last bit, like Blizzard did with their awesome Starcraft (and the new Starcraft 2). Then we would have a real e-sport competitive game that could last forever.
ok i think i figured out how to fix soul throw to where it would be able to be used with out
us getting kicked,punched, slapped etc…
Lp Soul Throw. needs 1 of the 2 chnages.
- like everyone said 6-8 perfferable 8 so we can actually get of the ground with out gettin hit. With this setup on 6 we would be invincible on start up but can be hit any time after(this is kind of what ex soul throw is now exept it goes farther.) With 8 we would be invinc through the start up and have one frame where we could be hit at the end. this would be the better of the two and would give rose a meaty anti air reversal
2)The invinc frames to start from frames 6 to 8-9, the 8 would allow us to get into the air but we have 1 frame before move is done where we could be hit. 9 would allow us to go the whole way without getting hit unless we got hit in the start up which is unlikely being that most of us only use soul throw when we see or predict the jump.
and it would be the same for mp and hp punch versions just that the invince frames are, for mp. 6-10 from start to finsh or for the 2nd option form frames 6 on to 9 or 10 we ar invinc. Hp. 6-11 from start to finsh or after frames 6 on to 10 or 11 invinc. the ex is the same as the hp but i think it should have 20 more damage
Reflects
Lp start up 13 active 2. change active 3 maybe 4 and where good.
Mp start up 13 actice 3. change active 4-4.5 maybe 5
Hp start up 12 active 2. change active to 3-4. add juggle to ST
Ex start up 8 active 2. change active 3-5(5 is strching i think, it might make it to easy so 4 might be better) add the ST juggle
:u: solid reflect tweaks :tup:
I could go for one to easily combo into (ie short startup) with another to easily combo after (ie short recovery) though.
hmm… Soul Throw solutions
- cr.hp semi launch like Abel’s (it’s on)
- a close lp.ST can cross up an opponent similar to blanka’s hop on wake up.
- a close canceled into mp.ST can cross up a crouching opponent similar to blanka’s hop.
- start up 6 frames are projectile proof only but…
- …then active invincible frames for lp=4, mp=5, hp=6, Ex=8
- Ex can semi-launch on 1st active frame
mmm… if we give Rose a normal invencible Soul Throw maybe we would be overpowering her defense.
with invencible frames, you could stuff almost all on air attacks, not only the jumping ones, for a whooping 140 damage.
im not sure, but i think the current (crappy) Soul Throw is ok as it is: regular ones catch jumping opponents and grab some of them during their air specials (el fuerte, Vega…) and EX works as AA against late jump ins or against some EX specials attacks (Blankas EX balls for example).
if only, i could give EX SThrow the ability to catch Bison during his EX HeadStomp.
its very annoying to get EX HStomped after predicting his attack and trying to stop him… and makes Rose too weak against his jump in/head stomp/devils reverse shenanigans.
dont u think its normal for an anti air atk to stuff air atk?
taking into account that its a grab and its a hit or miss (it cant trade), im not sure.
currently, it works, but only if done at the correct moment (and against the correct attacks). its like a surprise move to cath overconfident opponents.
i think currently it is quite well balanced: you can stuff late jump ins with EX versions, and early jump ins with regular version.
if regular ones were 100% reliable even against late jump ins, nobody could jump in against a decent Rose.
dont really know if improving regular SThrows would broke Rose… but surely she would advance in the tier list a lot.
Not that I play Rose but I would say regular soul throw is good against empty jumps if people are trying to keep you from focus attacking their jump ins or whatever. Giving everyone a bunch of really strong AA options just makes everyone play the same so yeah I wouldn’t prefer Rose’s regular soul throws to be great AA’s. I think they would be better if they could be comboed into like A3 Rose off juggles and what not.
Rose needs her Alpha 2 c.MP back. That was an anti air and a poke all in one. :lol:
Jump-ins lead to so much offense and pin you down if they go unchallenged. If you don’t give the character sufficient anti air, then they remain handicapped.
Remember when they sent out gameplay trailers for console characters and the idea behind Rose was provoking them to jumping onto the Scarf?
The vision didn’t quite work out like that, and Rose needs more of an edge.
So no one else is bothered that the HP Spark is shite? The startup is 29 frames and the total lag is almost as big as a red fireball from Akuma.
(25 frame startup, and I doubt see has a good advantage in flight speed)
I agree that drills are fine as they are, but something should give to have her punish mistakes for bigger damage. Shoto’s output about 320 damage on average, and potentially hit as much without any meter.
With Rose that figure’s about 200. She’s dependant on having meter waiting for when the opportunity comes along. No need to make everyone all the same kind of efficiency of course; but since Rose doesn’t have some extra edge, I don’t think it’d be sufficient to compete yet.
Rose’s anti-air: slide, sc.HK, sc.HP, c.HP, FA, ST, reflect, Spiral, ultra, super. So 10 options that I know of. Not all are practical, and most are situational, but I’ve used each of these attacks as AA which means theoretically there’s almost no reason Rose should get hit by a jump-in without at least trading.
Also I probably bait people into doing something to regret more often with HP spark than anything else. At least if their plan is to sit back and hop fireballs. Sure her projectiles aren’t the best in the game, but they’re just fine vs non-fireball characters in the proper circumstances.
EXST beats EXHS like nobody’s business. it’s all about timing. Bison has massive invincibility frames on that move, so you basically have to wait 'til he’s not yellow anymore, also meaning when he’s on his descension from his stomp arc; which indicates that he’s not using the Devil Reverse.
All of them arent 100% viable and damaging like a dp is though… Maybe Ex ST is viable, but it stills consume 1 bar.
I wouldnt include slide as an anti air also.
They’re all viable, just some are less reliable than others. and what fun would it be for Rose to have all these anti-air moves with the same reliability as a DP? that’s kind of Ryu’s thing, that you have to defeat his dragon punch to stand a chance.
I know what you’re getting at, I just think since Rose doesn’t have quite the same go-to move as Ryu, one playing as Rose has to consider what to use instead; based on the situation and by reaction. This is part of what makes her different. Rose isn’t easy, and I don’t want her to be. But if you want a reliable anti-air, then go play Ryu.
We’re lucky she has so much AA at all, really.
Why wouldn’t you consider slide as an anti-air? As long as somebody jumps in with a move that doesn’t stuff your slide, they’ll get hit.