Reflect IS USELESS against characters that don’t have a fireball. Sure, you might get an accidental HP reflect manages to hit somebody out of the air once, that doesn’t mean it’s a decent or reliable AA. And Zangief, really, if you’re trying to use something you’re not sure is reliable against him…
Say you’re fighting…Balrog. Happens pretty often, yeah? When are you going to use reflect or soul throw? Hopefully, you’re not.
ugh, i have lost some rounds/matches because of an accidental close quarter reflect when going from a crouched position to an standing one and trying to use a grab :S
i agree with Luffy, there are some moves in SFIV that are useless at all.
Vs Zangief, one time we were low on health, and he was jumping at me on my wake-up. The clock was winding down so it was a do-or-die moment. I think it came out because maybe I couldn’t decide between an attack, or backdash. Also I’m pretty sure it was EX reflect, not HP. Anyway, he got smacked on the other side of the screen where I was able to spark him out and win.
And sure you could TRY c.HP instead, I’ve never had good luck with that move against a jumping Zangief.
For Flash kick, I just meant it is useless when it’s blocked; showing that uselessness is a very situational concept.
I’ve been caught with spinning knuckle through my spark. and that move can almost be used like a parry. You probably know less about playing Cammy, so you shouldn’t act like she has any useless moves.
If a “Cammy player” was a total novice to the game, but knew how to do spinning knuckle, and it was the only thing that player did, he’d probably think of the move as inconsistent and useless also.
lol I use Soul Throw to escape corners after getting ultra’d all the time. Balrog’s will do 4 things when you’re cornered: 1) Jab at you on wake-up, 2) neutral jump 3) jump over you 4) grab. I usually wait to see what they do and EX Soul throw if it seems plausible.
Aside from that, soul throw can be used after a back throw should you shoot a spark on their wake-up. any character can get baited into that. I use spirals in excess for Balrog, though, so I’m not really displeased that soul throw can’t be used more frequently.
mmm… did any of you mates watched the famitsu stream?
it seems somebody picked Rose, and showed some spark tweaks. Could somebody give more details?
any other change?
I wish I had known about it. I didn’t think all of the characters were available in the current build. Maybe she got her pushback effect back?
C.HP is her best AA for me, i totally never miss it.
Flash kick has a good range, reflect must be used at very close range… Do u often combo Reflect as a Guile will combo flash kick… ?
If u actually use Reflect to hit someone… it’ll be Reflect only, srsly whats the use of using that move, if u could do reflect, u could had done another move. But yeah if u actually find a use of it, that’s cool. But… if u use it like once every 30 games against a non fb char… dont argue about it.
And for the cammy story… if u get hit by a knuckle… u just did a spark at a relatively close range where you shouldnt use it lol.
Metro never gets tired of taking shit out of context.
ANY MOVE IS USELESS DEPENDING ON THE SITUATION!!!
You gotta love this guy, seriously.
I didn’t take anything out of context. Luffy was speaking in absolutes. Well I guess Kail was too. Iunno where else I might’ve done that, but whatever. I originally responded to just a couple sentences, so there wasn’t anything to take out of context.
And Luffy, why would Capcom give reflect that super knockback ability if a player shouldn’t use it that way? Sure it’s very rare when one manages, or decides to do it, but that’s because we’re more concerned about maximizing damage in a combo than getting as far away as possible against certain characters.
I remember another time I was playing a Guile and as ridiculous as it was, got a two-hit combo off of reflecting his boom, and hitting him with the reflect. The dude definitely dashed into that one. And while it doesn’t show too much of an increased usefulness, it’s cool and effective when it happens.
by the way, the Cammy wasn’t close to me when I sparked. I can’t remember exactly, but she probably dashed in, or otherwise covered ground and did it. Good move however “useless” you think.
“useless” is not the same as “very limited use”, but it is quite close 
i remember a mirror match with a better Rose than me, and this player used MP Reflect as a meaty. I didnt expect that at all, it was like WTF??
anyways, it just wast flashyness, this special has no use at all because it pathetic damage. If Reflects inflicted 200 hp damage instead a pathetic 50… or 500 stun instead a poor 100, things would be different for sure!
im a cammy player and i tell you Spin Knuckle is completely useless the way it is now… it has crappy priority… huge startup… and highly punishable…
if you land Spin Knuckle you are either Psychic (only way to go through fireballs… Spin Knuckle should start with or before the start animation of fireballs, hence being psychic) or Extremely lucky playing some newbie who doesnt know how vulnerable cammy is during SBF…
i use it rarely once every 20 matches or so… its that useless…
there r two main things that the cammy community wants to change in the next iteration of SF:
EX version can be used on wakeup due to invisibility frames to get away and out of corners… but this trick wont work on the same opponent twice…
Any word on that Famitsu stuff chronikalz mentioned?
Spin Knuckle is ass. I use that shit once a year. Good opponents would be able to scratch their asses, wash their hands, then come back to their stick/pad and still punish it!
I’m still waiting for January to roll through so I can use that move again.
I love Rose throw game when I play online! woot! Especialyl 3 bars and less!
Metro…seriously man…why the hell are you arguing about this?
If you wanna lose damage and put yourself in a bad situation, use Reflect vs Sagat. You’ll take damage and another fireball will be coming your way forcing you to block or jump. Unless your perfect or on your A game, reflects are pretty bad against Sagat. You can sneak a few in here and there, but I dont think the risk is worth the reward seeing as a upper will be ducked by a lower.
Now about Soul Throw. Seriously. I sometimes get bold and stubborn and im lke “Fuck it, imma use Soul throw!”. I’m shocked all over again when it gets stuffed.
EX Soul throw is fine, but It requires strict timing on some moves. Again, not worth the reward because of the Risk.
C.HP is fine.
Now about reflect being a useless move. Hey, great vs fireballers. Not so great against others. Why? Because Rose players (Anyone out there new to rose, I’mma give you some awesome advice) should be focused on MAXIMIZING DAMAGE. If you have enough time to hit a Reflect, you had other options that could have lead to bigger damage. Now if reflect did huge stun, we would be talking about something different. As of right now, theres no reason to use reflect offensively. Sad, but true.
You know what probably happened to you Metro? Gief was jumping around like a tool and you panicked…tried to ultra him as he jumped over you and ex reflect probably came out. I could be wrong, but that usually is what happens. I’ve NEVER ex reflected by accident other than that.
Furthermore, i once LP reflected someone on his wake up while applying corner pressure. I used 2 Bars and cancelled it to a level 3 FA, so when he got up he had only a few frames to react. Worked once.
But that shit is USELESS!
Just like using EX reflect on offense. Because again, if you have time to do that shit, you had options.
Sagats fireballs are pretty hard to reflect (if you’ve forgotten how to fireball) but simultaneously the easiest to avoid. That’s why nobody should be concerned with reflecting his fireballs any time you’re full screen. I save actual reflects when the match gets serious and I have the lead and I’m at that point in the fireball war where I have to jump, slide, duck, block, reflect or focus the next one to avoid taking a hit. If a Sagat’s shooting slow ones to mess you up, it’s because he wants you to try reflecting it, which makes using sparks more than possible.
Kail- that moment of reflecting Zangief was honestly an accident that happened a long time ago when I was still figuring out how to play Rose. Not everything in the game is about maximal damage. Otherwise we’d all be going for unsafe jump ins.
Reflects can put you in a good position against slower characters who got to work to get to you. And while I haven’t decided if I would intentionally use reflect for this purpose, the fact that Capcom gave the move that property, means they wanted Rose players to consider using it in this way.
Spin knuckle isn’t any different than how it was in SF2/Alpha. Along with going through fireballs, you can use it to counter poke. And even though it’s relatively slow, it’s a good move with a lot of active frames. Y’all stop crying and learn to play.
Your missing the point Metro.
1)Obviously it was a mistake and shouldn’t be used as a reliable tool because again…if you had time to pull that off you had time to pull something else off
2)I dont suggest reflecting unless you’re absolutely sure your gonna be able to reflect it. If you mess up and he comes at you with another one, your in a BAD position on one reflected fireball. Yea you can avoid them easily. But position is a big factor vs Sagat. I don’t know about you, but I don’t like being full screen vs sagat and I work to narrow the gap. And think about what your saying. You have the lead and hes making YOU work, and hes building meter.
3)Yes, sometimes you let up max damage for spacing, or pressure…or hell…a guaranteed win. But if your talking about using reflect as anti-air…even if you could do it consistently…your making the match harder for you, when you don’t need to.
4)But I could see a use for say…c.lp xx lp reflect/mp reflect against Gief if your lucky enough to hit it while your cornered to send him across the screen. But i’ll be honest, It’s rare i’ve been close enough to gief hitting a single jab. Plus…that tickles. Id rather throw the guy.
I’m making him work just as much when I have the lead. Sagats think they can make everybody come to them, but when I’m just matching their fireballs, they won’t bother using the slower (mind game) fireballs since they have to get me to the point where I can’t keep matching and opens up an opportunity for them to advance… right into their own fireball.
You see what I’m saying? To me, reflects are kind of necessary at that point, even if I use it just a couple times in a round/match.
yea spinning backfist is a good move…so is random tatsus and full screen ultras and supers
First of: the zangief player probably empty-jumped? Secondly, all your replies are disrespectful, especially since the players you argue against are actually a lot better than you. Who do you play to keep thinking you are good?
I main Cammy now, there is no reason to use her spinning knuckle. there you have it. if she could land that, she couldve landed a way better jumpin combo. It’s a higher risk than jumping. Only useful move is EX backfist, because it can escape corners. But even that move kill you if they just bait, because it whiffs after crossing.
taking into account no Reflect has any invincibility frames, and it weird short range hitboxes, it doesnt work as reliable attack nor AA at all.
thats another dumb gameplay design decision. CAPCOM could at least give Reflects a lot of stun (like Zangief headbutt), that would have open new tactics for Rose (getting upclose to combo into Reflect to get stun; or getting mid distance to combo into Spiral to get knockdow and damage).
but no, they decided to leave Rose as an unfinished char without options. Nice. :annoy:
hehe i feel you Acku, im playing 50/50 between Cammy and Rose now. Cammy is a fun char, with interesting combos. I feel it is a natural election for a Rose player to mess with her a bit.
unfortunately, she is another flawed console char :sad: SBF is almost useless, and her LK and MK Arrows are not very useful also. Like Rose, she needs some tweaks, no doubt.
oh great, Mr. Cammy has such a problem with my attitude he’s insulting how I play (which he’s never seen). Yeah you’re nice. At least I said how Spin Knuckle can be set up. Acku, you got such a problem with Cammy, go play Ken. What’s with these jackasses maining characters they see as flawed? Fuck this place.