Sharpening my claws.. Vega(Claw) Wants/Needs

I knew people would misinterpret what I said about ST.

notice how I said connecting with an ST lets you ambiguously corpse hop in 3 different ways? Meaning every time you hit with it you can initiate your offensive game at full capacity? Confirm combos into EX FBA, jump out fierce, kara throw set ups, etc.? I am aware that there is no such thing as ST pressure. Which is why setting up an ST (which there are plenty of options to do so) is very important, and which is why considering it has plenty of uses already (cosmic heel, combo into, RCF neutral frame advantage, used as a mix up with your air throw, or a poke) it makes no sense to give it better defensive properties as well. I don’t know anything about Vega? Come on, add my GT. I know a lot about Vega in this game.

And yes, jump in, close fierce, fierce RCF, is definitely a block string. I realize there are no block strings other than that, but being able to use fierce RCF for that purpose alone is good enough for me. Free chip off a great jump in. Otherwise you can catch people turtling if you’re kara throwing a lot and use it to dupe people out for free chip.

I never said he should have a comboable ultra and honestly I like the ultra. I agree with what you say there about having a comboable ultra not work with his playstyle. I set up the ultra in plenty of ways, it works great as a reversal in the corner, you can learn to dash xx ultra, focus dash xx ultra, and then when you learn to jump to either wall out of your dashes you can really dupe people with it. One buff I would suggest is giving Vega the ability to use normal FBAs out of Dashes and Focus dashes. This would make the surprise of an ultra going off out of a dash (normally you can’t FBA out of dashes) much more effective. That would be a very effective, inadvertent buff to the ultra.

The slide is really hard to make safe. Only at max distance is it safe and that positioning is hard to integrate into an actual match considering it goes a fair distance past the rest of Vega’s pokes. This contributes to the most effective kind of zoning however which is 3/4 screen, at c. st counter hit distance. Maybe it should be a little easier to make safe but not t hat much as it is a pretty beast move for punishing purposes.

Just because ST was a reversal type move in super turbo doesn’t mean it should be in this game. For me it’s 100% offensive set ups, confirming into it, or using cosmic heel into it which I integrate into my footsie game. Very rarely do I use ST as an AA unless I’ve been mixing up with my air throw, but it’s great because it also takes people out of any part of their jump arc. I also don’t use it as a reversal often either. If you gave it invincibility or any dominant defensive property Vega would be able to initiate his offensive game far too easily which is why IMO it shouldn’t be changed that much.

People always tell me I must never play Vega, then use SF2 as a counter-argument. Well I’m not playing SF2, I’m playing SF4. The only people who probably know more about Vega than me are Bebop, Tatsu, Sasaki, and the japanese pros. I’d like to hear one of them dish on this.

wow suddenly vegas the most popular guy in school! i was begining to wonder when this thread would get started (considering we already have one in the character discussion section)… jozhear dont listen to these retards…you have probly forgotten more about vega than most of these guys will ever know…u know your shit and ur one of the few vega players that should even be posting in this thread.

Thanks dude.

AWESOME IDEA!!! :rock:

Just for fun, when vega loses his mask, he should get a new ultra where he stabs people through the heart… then licks the blood off of his claw…

Do some research before you call somebody out like that. joz has been top 3 in our local ranbat point standings from the get-go… not to mention that Vega does have one highly effective block string, so you were wrong right from the jump.

You are making a lot of points on how Vega “should” play without accounting for the huge difference in game systems between SFIV, ST and CvS2… to put it nicely, get your head out of your ass.

my suggestion for fixing Vega…

  • give him invincibility on EX scarlet terror so that he doesn’t get raped by tiger knee and isn’t so free on wake up
  • make his standing light kicks higher priority anti-airs, like a less damaging version of Dhalsim’s b+rh
  • make his crouching jab chain into itself so he can hit confirm into EX FBA

I think vega is good the way he is I win 9/10 battles hes actually a strong character if you know how to use his tools…I just with his DF Medium kick was an over head… that is all

It’s awesome how 40% of you guys never even played him in SFIV. lol
And don’t mind that guy, Joz, he doesn’t know anything.

Alright, I’ll put those nice ideas together. IMO there are different ways on how you can buff Vega. Those are my two favourite ones:

1.) Make him HF Vega-like and leave his flipkick as it is now. This means:

  • ST slide
  • faster walking and poking speed
  • some improved pokes, including df.mk as an overhead
  • faster walldive recovery and more reach on walldive claw attack
  • nj.hk -> Ultra/ST

This basically means he still breaks under pressure but has overall better attack and zoning ability.

2.) EX-Flip Vega

  • Mask throw -> HYPER MODE. increase speed by a lot! defense down! (2 meter bars)
  • Mask loss -> SUPER MODE. attack up! defense down! (more damage and chip on normals plz!)
  • make df.mk an overhead
  • EX-Flips to escape stupid situations (Graphfs idea!)

-> No fancy ultra setups but interesting gameplay due to stat buffs and EX flips.

Oh and make his df.hk 0 frames on block.

Sad thing is that he may not get buffed that much. They made this game rather quickly or at least I think so. Let hope for the best. I am seeing that he will get a minor buff but perhaps not a major buff unfortunately.

Before I start, FIRST POST!!!

Originally a Shoto (Who really wasnt), then Vega player in SSFIIT, Sagat in SF4… I have given up what I liked about Sagat and have gone back to Vega. Nothing seemed to do it like Vega did in Super Turbo but I was totally disappointed. Of the changes I would like to see, just for overall balancing (And for Jesus sake he’s Shadowloo, wtf Capcom!) are the following.

-df.MK needs to be an overhead, it looks like and over and feels like it should be. This was really obvious and clearly someone dropped the ball here.

-Claw and Mask need to stay on longer. Also Mask debuff is really crushing since it puts you below Akuma’s Defense.

-If they still decide to keep the remove of the claw/mask. Make them invincible as a means of escaping a move. Honestly I feel the claw removal is just a taunt and as such totally unnecessary.

-K or KKK canceling of Flying Barcelona with reduced recovery time.

-Higher Priority on Scarlet Terror, EX being invincible on startup. They generally leave you open when blocked anyway.

-Removal of Shortcuts because doing a Scarlet Terror and it ends up a RCF is just… wtf. I believe this is just an overall bad idea in the first place to put in shortcuts. Why not throw in Easy Operation stick comes while your at it Capcom? Get rid of this please.

-EX Flying Barcelona invincible on travel to the wall. This will help with getting out of Corners at the cost of a Super bar though (I’m content with that).

-Faster startup on EX RCF or if their lazy, invincible on startup (for the love of god go with the first option).

-Some way of landing Bloody High CLOOOOOOOO, or just change the ability to something manageable. I only see a purpose of this against a jump-in or when pressured against a wall. It fails at both.

Other than that, I don’t think there’s anything else wrong with Claw. It just those things in particular I feel just lower Claw compared to SSFIIT or HDR. We all know Vega can be better and Capcom can make him better but will they actually do it? I just don’t understand how he dropped so much on the transition of SSFIIT to SF4, Sagat sure as hell didn’t.

<.< A personal gripe though is why does every Special Move almost need an EX version? That just seems a bit much. Save Parrying, I think SF3 did EX moves better.

Whatever Capcom decides to change, I really just want Vega to have something that makes him more competitive in relationship to the rest of the cast. I think it’s sad that for a lot of us that solely play Vega, the thought of even placing in a tournament that matters is beyond reach. Fix things that need to be fixed first:

Sweep Slide Glitch
Wall-Dive camera panning Glitch

Then, if everybody will have invincibility frames for a wake up move, don’t leave Vega out. Inv. Frames for ST.

Finally, I think his mask and claw should stay attached. I don’t know of anyone who purposely throws it away in a real match.

I’m not even sure where I’m going with this. But Capcom, if you’re listening… you don’t need to make Vega top tier or anything, just make Vega a little more worthwhile to learn.

Scarlet Terror needs a little improvement, but it doesn’t need invincibility.

i just don’t want to lose my claw or mask from a DAMN THROW ESCAPE!!! i mean seriously, capcom?! it’s not even chip or block stun! ugh!

This man sums it up nicely :tup:

Speed him up. Just him not the engine (not fair for Gen/Viper/Fuerte players), nor the characters, but just him and nothing else. As it stands Bison should not walk faster than him. This should fix the problems he has now. improve his jab to 3 frames, but keep the 1 frame link between another jab and cr.mp to prevent jab spam. In fact just increase the speed on all of his attacks while keeping all of his links and cancels + if you speed up RCF its now combo friendly and will give Vega the option to build meter, or put himself in advantageous position. Keep st.rh, st.hp, scarlett terror at the same speed. No invul frames on ST if Vega is speed up, if he isnt speed up then give him invul frame on ST. And for his wall dives, give it an insta air property, and if Vega is speed up then his wall dives and recovery frames would be faster. But for Flying Barcelona/RCF keep the recovery frames as they are now so wall diving is still punishable, and both moves arent spammable.

other than that fix hit box issues, and take the ability to carry a charge for about 1/4 of a second, but dont know how that will fly with those FA xx dash foward - BHC people.

Everything else should be kept the same, mask drop, claw drop etc.

BTW : did any of you play Vega in HF or CE? or did most of you pick him up ST/A3

I was a db holding, wall dive (ab)using claw in ST. Needless to say i suck at SF4.

[LIST]
[*]df + mk should be an overhead.

[*]Scarlet Terror’s input should be changed to dp + k

[]Fix the wall dive glitch where Vega flies towards the wall but never bounces off.
[
]Make rolling crysal flashes better. LP version should be fast enough that it can combo for both hits hits off of any cancelable normal. The others should be able to combo for full hits off of close normals.

[*]Cancelable jabs and shorts would be cool considering that Vega is supposed to be fast - it only makes sense.

[*]Fix the hit box on Vega’s claw. I hate throwing a c. mp, seeing the claw touch the opponent but the move whiffs. It just looks stupid.
[/LIST]

wow what an epic fail. im so sorry but really ST changed to dp + k? I would drop him instantly because he is no longer Vega, and he no longer will play like a charge character, and you will simply change so many fundamental core aspects of Vega . Learn to buffer db charge during block strings, jump ins and taking someone elses block strings. Cancelble jabs? WTF this isnt marvel and the reason its hard to connect jab to jab is because imagine if he could spam that shit like balrog? That shit will be OP. Go play balrog or Ryu if you think Vega needs these changes. Here is hoping that Vega gets no buffs if all these bandwagon people will play him simply because the dont have to invest as much time as they had to in SF 4.

HF Vega is would be very fun IMO :’)