Abel and Dhalsim don’t have invincible reversals, and do pretty damn well in Japanese videos. SBO’s final included both characters.
You are wrong about Abel and Sim.
Abel has EX TT and super. Sim has super and tele, which doesn’t hit but is still ENTIRE levels ahead of backflips in terms of usefulness.
Claw should have EX ST be invincible. Not even non EX. Just EX. I mean you are giving up a fucking stock man. Are you serious?
Still trying to think of a bonus suggestion for removing the claw. I mean, Vega is a great character to humiliate players with, but he’s not Dan; if he has a move in the arsenal, it should have uses. I think if removing the mask gives you something, then removing claw should do the same. I just can’t think of anything.
Extended Izuna drop and airthrow range? It’s trading poking range for grabbing range.
Who beats vega in a poking war? Sim maybe, in my head I don’t consider that poking, but sure, if you said that I would be forced to agree. Who else has a poking advantage over him?
Bison and Chun outclass Vega, and they’re only bottom to mid-tier. Seth also dominates.
bull, Bison can’t outpoke Vega for shit. C. Strong is a move that Bison simply cannot replicate, and as a result it’s the defining factor. Bison’s roundhoues is equal speed to vega’s fully extended RH with less range, and although his c. mk is quite fast at 5 frames it has nowhere near the range of Vega’s c. mp (which is also faster). Bison does however have a better st. mk which is 6 frames and iirc slightly less distance than vega’s 8 frame st. mk and st. fierce. Seth has garbage footsies.
Chun, I agree with. She’s the best poke character in the game. Vega is second, and I would argue that even Gen goes before Bison.
like I said before in the vega forum, though it sounds promising that Vega has great pokes, they don’t really mean much when pokes as a whole are a rather weak aspect of SF4. Focusing kind of makes them less useful then they could be and it’s common to always get your limbs SRK’d or reversal’d by many.
Nigga what? 
I have had 0 trouble outpoking bison with vega, your range is better and it is not too tough to whiff punish his primary pokes. What pokes is Bison using to deal with your crouch mp and stand mk? I assume his stand mk and maybe some stand RH. His stand mk doesn’t have as much range as your crouch mp, forcing him to get inside your poke range before he can even threaten a block. Without if he throws it out early to stuff your pokes, it is not fast enough to be safe from whiff punish (although it is somewhere near the cusp). Stand mk gives you even more range to force him to throw out punishable preemptive pokes.
Chun li I am not too sure of, I would have to mess around with that more, but I remember eating apart most of chun li’s pokes. How does her far HP work range wise against your crouch mp?
Anyways, more on point, both of those characters with great pokes have comparatively poor anti air. Better than vega but still hardly a invincible knockdown 4 frame 180 damage okizeme setting up move. And chuns ex SBK is NOTHING compared to how good vega’s ex scarlet would be at 4f invul. 4f is pretty much not safe jumpable. SBK is an easy safe jump, and has vulnerable areas. Notice how the good pokers have spotty anti air? This was likely done on purpose.
Nope. Not giving Vega credit for the pokes he has actually does not only show his experience VS Vega but his exp as a Vega main. I never really understood what he meant by “not even close to the best” poke character :'D That’s totally ridiculous, sorry.
It’s the same with the guys that say he’s not fast on the ground although he has walk forward speed 10 (along with Akuma) which is the best in the console version, and the second best jumpin speed AFAIK.
Yes, try and pick some one else, then play against a good Vega. I can assure you, it’s not rly easy to get in on a Vega that knows the game. Sometimes the player himself doesn’t notice how good his pokes really are.
The thing right now is just that most characters really fuck him up by doing oki and meaties, which is easily going to happen once in a match unless you have a good BACKFLIP or EVASION TOOL at your disposal, which he currently doesn’t.
Sagat’s stand forward beats Vega’s…everything that isn’t a special or a jump normal lol.
/wins thread. Sagat’s st. rh beats everything even if it’s a special or jump normal.
Vega has no reliable way of dealing with lk scissor spam, chun has a better zone. She can also mix-up a hella lot better.
Agreed on the Chun Mix-up.
Not knowing whether to expect a sweep or the forward flip into splits overhead she has (I could never spell the name of that move off the top of my head) makes her mix up crazy good.
lol.
She has more than that, but if it makes you any better, flipkick trades/loses with both.
She can zone with her fireballs and her Ultra is much, much better at punishing. Don’t whiff wall dives on her.
So far hes making the most sense in this whole thread. Mainly because we both have the same views on why vega sucks and what should be given to him to make him better.
Bison doesn’t poke with just normals. Short scissors is his best poke.
Vega is not the best poke character in the game. He is great poke character, but he doesn’t have “GROUND SUPERIORITY” over all other characters in the game and that is what my comment was speaking to. He does not control all space horizontally in front of him.
Chun strongly out pokes him. Bison has an equal if not slightly stronger poke game with short scissors, and his ST RH and other kicks are great. Sim is strong but different. Blanka has a strong poke game also. To say that Vega dominates them all is going way to far.
…and even adding on to that is the fact that there’s no reasonable way to combo after his pokes. He doesn’t have a Shoto cr.short into fireball or Balrog chain combo into headbutt into ultra.
The properties of Vega’s pokes are great, but the damage potential is shit, maaan.
c.mp> ex-fba
That’s what I wanted you to say. Though I think he IS close to the best poke character in the game.
And I don’t really think what makes the matchups against the other pokers in their slight advantage are their superior pokes. I don’t think that’s why Vega slightly loses to them.