People don’t realize it yet, but with the right team setup, it’s possible to build a ridiculous amount of momentum in this game. From one poke and about half a bar, I typically get around 400 damage and a 50/50 mix-up, into 250 damage and the same mix-up, into another 350 damage. Even if the opponent blocks correctly, I get to put them in frame trap hell. All those defensive options are going to be a necessity against someone with a well-planned offense.
Personally, I still have my doubts on whether most of these standing resets are going to be worth using, but it’s always worth exploring and documenting things like this. Something really useful might be found, or otherwise they can make for some cool combo videos.
I posted about this in the Steve forums a few weeks back, but Steve’s Standing reset is nothing practical at all. Since Steve does not have any strong high low options all he is limited to is meaty attacks(for a counterhit setup) or throw, and the throw itself(+ Bounce) does less damage than the combos he gets off Albion or a Counterhit Ovehread, and you would rarely even hit these 2 options in a real match so you are better off just finishing your combos instead of going for a standing reset. The only practical use is in a long set you can train your opponent to tech after the counterhit overhead so you can get a meaty attack, but overall it’s not that good. You can tag your partner in for the reset, but then again you can also tag him in for the combo which is unscaled and will deal quite a bit of damage.
But thanks for finding the tech for the other characters, I was wondering if any other characters had standing resets since I found the ones with Steve.
The reason is that all those moves are multiple hits(LIlis divekick is multiple hits, Steve’s chain is d/b lk~MP, Heis 2 hits,Chun’s clMK is multiple hits) , and I’m guessing they are designed to force restand for a comboable state I’m guessing in a normal juggle, and that’s messed up by the ground bounce which causes them to restand period? That’s what I see in common with these moves.
Edit: I think I found a way to hit confirm into Steve’s standing reset, although it’s very technical.
The opponent has to be crouching for clMP to be +30 on hit, so this will only work crouching, if works at all, I didnt test the link but I think it works.
Any Combo ending in FoxHunt xx EX CADC, link clMP xx Albion Combination then Foot Stomp for reset
Requires Crouching opponents but is practical as it does enough damage of its own before resetting. Since Albion is a multihitting move before the final hit ground bounces you can also do resets with tag cancels I’m guessing like his command grab by dashing forward to make the last hit whiff and jumping up.But actually practical as you get good enough damage off the command grab solo and you rarely land the command grab in the first place.
I genuinely like the game, it’s a fun game,it’s a good game, and a lot of work went into it. People are constantly jumping on the bandwagon to constantly spam “THIS GAME IS SHIT” because either they want to be on the hate bandwagon, they have some false sense of entitlement, want to see CAPCOM fail, or they just don’t like this game. But all that shit is just annoying people who like the game, and chances are after some bugs are worked out ( I hope they do something about the assist gems ) and people see some hype matches in big tournaments people will switch opinions because most people are sheep, that includes the FGC.
I respect that you’re actually learning the game and adapting ways to deal with stuff you don’t like in the game, that actually requires brain power.
I like your way of thinking UltraDavid. Instead of seeing the timer as an issue anymore, you think about time management and how it is another layer in the game. And the same thing about rolling. You don’l like it, so you treat “how to deny the opponent a roll” like a mini game inside the game. The way I understood it atleast. I like where this is going, and hope more tech is found!
Good stuff, and now I need to try to find something like this for my character choices, and actually put it to use as well. I actually love the roll mechanic (eh, I’m used to it), but of course if there’s a way to deny it and keep my opponent standing I’d like that even more. XD
I was looking into this stuff but I’m just not seeing much use in it besides maybe Chun’s restand. I feel like in most cases you’re giving up too much damage or meter just for pressure. In a game like this where meter is so important, I’m not sure if spending meter on non-guaranteed damage like this is worth it, compared to tag cancelling specials into ambiguous jumpins for 400+ damage. However if anyone has a character that can build 1 bar in a combo and does not sacrifice a large amount of damage by tag cancelling into a restand I would love to see it.
Personally I feel that knockdowns in the corner aren’t useless, just walking back out of roll distance gives you the advantage overall. Either they roll and you get meaty pressure or they stand in the corner and you still have the positional advantage. Midscreen is a different story, I try to go for corner carry combos.
I agree the corner is underrated. Just removing the ability to walk back from your opponent is extremely important. Combos are for the most part shorter and more difficult in the corner, but that’s fine, because if you keep them in the corner you get more opportunities to start new ones, which is why I always stand just outside of roll range on KD when they’re in the corner, I’m more than happy to let them wake up without pressure knowing they have no where to go and will fall right back into neutral pressure.
I still think the timer is a design issue that should be fixed, because it forces opponents to make bad mistakes in ways that often aren’t realistically preventable, and it dictates that the best play is often runaway, even at stages of the clock where it shouldn’t be. I think there are relatively easy fixes to the game engine to fix this, though. I used to hate rolls and thought they should be nerfed to hell, but I’ve gotten used to them a bit and it’s often only a problem if you jump. If you stay grounded you can still get some pretty good pressure, not to mention any anti-roll tech that gets developed later (plus jumping is still an option, but it’s now a read you have to make). Basically, I wouldn’t mind rolls getting nerfed a touch (less distance? I dunno) but I think most SFxT players are being proactive with strategies against roll. Strategies against the timer seem to be “hit them and kill them faster than normal, take risks earlier than normal”.
Anyway, don’t really want to hijack this thread and turn it into “how to fix SFxT”. I do wish more people would take UD’s attitude about working with what we have, rather than being constantly negative. I always like seeing unique offensive strategies and synergies so hopefully there’s some nice viable tech that comes out of this standing reset stuff.
Yoshi has Slap U Silly, Stone Fists, Windmill, his overhead chain, and HK/EX Posion Breath that all leave the opponent standing, with PB causing a crumple state,
Hmm I was messing with my team and Sagat’s lk and mk Tiger Knees will cause a standing state post ground bounce but his HK TK does not for some weird reason, I’m 100% sure these ground bounce resets have to do with multi hitting moves so more labwork needs to do be done.
Hwoarang (ground bounce): 5MK > MK, can hold forward to transition to stance and recover faster
An easy setup for this is by doing it right after his 6HK overhead.
Edit: You can also combo into it, but it’s tricky to do it from a hit-confirm because of pushback.
5LP, 5MP > LP, 5MK (whiff) > MK
2LK-5MK > MK > 3, 2LP-5MP > LP, 5MK (whiff) > MK
FLA MK > LK > 3, 2LK-5MP > LP, 5MK (whiff) > MK
Marduk (ground bounce): 5HP (f) > 2PP
This isn’t very practical to use. If the standing HP hits the opponent out of the ground bounce state, the tackle follow-up causes a standard knockdown.
Edit:
(Xiaoyu) AOP 214KK (switch to Marduk) step back, 5HP > 2PP
I saw that ex tiger knee resets standing, didn’t think to test the regular strengths for some reason.
And yeah, this multi-hitting thing seems like a good answer. Not every multi-hitting move, but at least that’s a way to narrow down which moves to test!
i wish this game had more restand/reset of some kind for most character. My idea was maybe everyone should have a jump reset? There are way to many jump attacks thats are basically useless… a good idea imo is maybe jump jab or short for example which gives the classic flip reset which gives oppurtunity for your character to maybe dash under or some high low mixup or grab of some kind. I also would like for some characters to have some grounded resets that arent glitches or hard to set up. I also think hard knockdown needs more time on the ground to give some players an option to jump on the other side without giving them the option to get up so they cant roll away. Some characters should also have normal specials with hard knock down in general that isnt some type of sweep or grab of some kind. More mixup oppurtunity in the corner.
Also we need to remove QUICK combos lp+hk, lk+hp. I know not everyone likes OS, but they are here to stay and everyone should have acces to ones that benefit them some how.
Juri (ground bounce): MK Senpusha (214MK), 3rd hit only
This doesn’t seem too useful, having 25-28 recovery frames at the end.
Edit:
(Hwoarang/mid-screen) 214HK (switch 1st hit to Juri) wait for bounce, 214MK
I really like that you put some work in to spreading knowledge about SFxT once in a while, because this game sure needs some known players/commentators to show something else than hate for the game. I really think re-stands brings a new level of depth to the game. Anyone with lab access, please find a Dhalsim one:P
