SFxT General Discussion #3 - Still Alive

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter x Tekken
3521

I’m sorry if I have offended you with my opinions.

It’s just that I was really frustrated at the idea of some people’s ignorance when it comes to learning fighting games in general.

For instance I have a bunch of friends who are heavily into like the Naruto and Smash Bros. series’ of games. Granted, I don’t mind both of these games as much as the next guy nor do I try to force them into playing fighters that I play such as Tekken and SF. I just find it frustrating at times when if I even mention a single word about the fighters I play to them, they just go silent or bash it because usually they make all of these excuses like:

‘Because you play it, I won’t really have a chance at winning against you’ or ‘it takes too much time.’

I’m sorry if my intentions was in your words to ‘bash the TTT2 community’. I was just mentioning the problems that Tekken faces. I personally love to play Tekken, so much so I’m trying to really invest my time into playing TTT2 to learn it properly not like all my half-assed attempts with the previous installments from T5 DR onwards.

But I will admit that after playing TTT2 unless someone plays the game with the intention of really learning it to become a better Tekken player, there isn’t much else that the game offers that hasn’t been offered in previous installments.

Survival Mode? Time Attack? Team Battle? Ghost Battle? Online Mode? (which is really good if you ask me :slight_smile: ) Character Endings? There’s Youtube for that which I think killed the potential sales of the game simply because people don’t want to go through Arcade Mode ‘X’ amount of times to unlock all of the endings when they could just jump on Youtube and watch every last one of them in about an hour or so. It’s human nature, we always want to find the easy way out of things.

Aside from all of that, the game still has the aesthetic appeal that most people buy the series for. The graphics, soundtrack and the characters are just too like-able. Even if you hate one character, chances are you’ll like another one and I love it when people have all of these arguments about who would win? Or who is a better character than who in terms of stuff like appearance or how superior their character is to another.

That said, if you strip away all the aesthetic appeal of the game, the modes that have been put in previous Tekken installments (bar Fight Lab) pretty much you have a very solid, straight up hard-core fighter. I like that but I don’t think others think the same :(.

Even you will admit, if someone hasn’t played any of the previous installments and they want to play this game to get good at it. It will be rough as hell for them in the fact that they will have to learn so much in order to even scratch the surface of being able to play this game at a high, competitive level. Even now I have to go back and revise up on how to fight against the old characters, look at their new strings and changes as well as the new characters as well and it’s quite a bit to take in.

But as I said before, I’m sorry if I have offended you with my opinions. In all honesty though, I more feel sorry for you in the fact that you have come on here modelling yourself to be like a representative of ‘the zaibatsu community’ as you have mentioned in your post and then you go and insult me for expressing my opinion. Therefore presenting a really bad image to anyone who either hasn’t heard of TekkenZaibatsu.com and/or is possibly just a visitor to this forum.

Meh it doesn’t bother me too much. I’ll still make an account with you guys because I love the game and I want to become a better Tekken Player :slight_smile: . I’ve been insulted too much in my life for my love of fighting games and I don’t think a simple ‘fuck off’ from someone is really going to put me off from improving my game.

3522

Tried to convert the Mahvel monsters in the chat, but these guys are lost cases. Gems, time overs, DLC, they all bashed it. Kinda felt like a Warhammer 40K Inquisitor fighting off the forces of Chaos.

Congrats Alioune! :slight_smile:

3523

LOL! Sounds like ALL of my friends

I say "Come on! I play COD with you guys - play some SSF4 and SFxTk with me, I promise you’ll end up enjoying it"
then they say what you said; oh your too good blah blah, I follow up with I’ll hit random select!!!
They never try…
So I’m not the only one!

3524

Yea i am in the same spot. I got a fried who i play fps and other games with. I tried to get him into fighters like street fighter but he only wanted to play marvel. So I was thinking okay np, i learn marvel 3. Yea i started to practice the game and learn somethings. Now he won’t play me at all in the game. Sucks too since he the only offline friend i could even consider playing a fighter.

Which suck because it was fun learning marvel 3 offline because i hate playing that piece of crap netcode. same reason why i don’t play kof 13 since the net code is ass.

3525

Any word on that Ayano blog update that was/is supposed to be today? Thanks.

3526

Hmm…if TTT2 didn’t sell too well…I wonder how the Wii U edition is going to do? Considering all of the Nintendo costumes, the item battle mode, and the reintroduction of Tekken Ball…maybe people are just waiting for that version?

[media=youtube]rk2XjbvuGa0[/media]

Probably not, but…I can see a lot of people getting this version just because of the Nintendo stuff. I know I’m one of them. :rock:

On topic, anyone else notice that some of the character’s moves resemble that of KOF character’s moves? Like…

Hwoarang’s Air Raid :f: Kim’s dive kick (don’t know the official name)

Steve’s Hellfire :f: Ryo’s Kou’ken

Abel’s Shoulder Tackle :f: Terry’s Shoulder Tackle

Well…maybe it’s just a coincidence, since there doesn’t seem to be a lot of examples. Maybe other people can think of more examples; I’m not that familiar with KOF.

3527

Yoshimitsu’s stance resemble that of Haohmaru. It doesn’t help that his stance in SFxT is completely different to his Tekken stance:

Yoshimitsu’s Gehosen also resembles Haohmaru’s Kogetsuzan. His poison breath and spin-a-roonies resemble some of Tam Tam’s moves.

Jin’s Penetrating Fist looks kind of familiar too, and there’s a command dash which resembles Iori’s. Vega’s laugh also resembles Iori somewhat.
[media=youtube]nxzX3tyHHMg[/media]

Worst of all, Juri’s stance, costume, and personality are somehow derived from Angel.

3528

Well it’s not like Capcom had a character made specifically to parody SNK that they could’ve put in the game instead.
[media=youtube]7erl9k01C2M[/media]

3529
  • yawns and stretches, opens laptop up at work *

Wonder what’s going on in the SFxT GD–

O______O

HOHHHHHHLY SHIZZ what did I miss lol

Juri is pretty much a combination of Angel’s personality and Kim’s fighting style/outfit, with Jolyne’s design mixed in to boot.

…Which probably explains why I like Juri so much lol. She’s got a lot of my favorites mixed in to her design (Angel and Kim are two of my absolute favorite SNK/KoF characters).

I’m still sad that there’s a chance we’ll never see Angel again in a KoF game. :frowning: Angel in KoF XIII’s style? Yes please and thank you.

(To be fair, Juri and Angel fall into a very common stereotype, so I find it more shocking that it took Capcom this long to use said stereotype in an SF game, lol.)

3530

I wouldn’t agree on this point. After all, there are still Asuka players!

Too far?

3531

I’ll admit that I was to blame for the argument. I stated my opinions about why TTT2 didn’t sell as well and Menen went and took it to heart.

Her response was very passionate but it was very emotionally driven. So instead of responding back with something of similar quality, I just stated my reasons and apologized for offending her. Jamp banned her for a month afterwards after Intuitive posted something else about her comment.

Chances are, she’s going to go to the TekkenZaibatsu forums to tell really bad things about me because I decided to voice my opinions which is pretty bad considering that I want to set-up an account there once I start doing online video series’ for the game, so that I can send the matches I’ve played to have them broken down by the guys at the site.

EDIT: Just read that TTT2 moved 840,000 copies in both Europe and Japan on EH. Not bad, I take my last words back.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Personally I respect Asuka players for now because of the amount of crap that she has to go through to get any damage right now.

Don’t get me wrong though when that Asuka Army rises in 2013 I’m taking to the hills to watch the fire-works unravel especially if their first goal is to:

‘DESTROY ALL LILI PLAYERS!’ :sad: (not very good if you have her in your avatar mind you)

What I didn’t mention though was that there are other people who don’t like easy way out, rather they would work to gain satisfaction. People like this change the perceptions of the common thought.

It can kind of be applied to now in a sense. If ‘X’ Player says SFxT is a bad game then a lot of people follow that view because it’s an easy opinion to take and it’s from a well known person in the FGC so how can they be wrong right?

But you’ll find that some who wish to really push the boundaries of something can really change pre-concieved ideas or thoughts about something. For instance take the match between Jibbo and Rayray, the match where Jibbo, in a sense, ‘stomped’ on him. Ending matches quickly.

The stream chat was making so much jokes beforehand about time-outs and stuff but blink and it’s all over. There needs to be more matches like this in order to change common perceptions about the game.

3532

Just saw DOA5’s producer discussing possible patch updates on balancing with a set of rules:

Direction 1: As a rule, we are not going to do anything that makes all of your practice up to now pointless. We will only tweak things we feel are absolutely necessary.

Direction 2: We will balance aspects we feel are not fair. Moves that are way too strong or which have strange motion, etc. Bug fixes are included in this consideration.

Direction 3: We will not change the concept and importance of keeping each character’s individuality. Rather than kill personality to make everyone the same, we’ll strengthen the weak characters to make a fair fight

Direction 4: I will tweet questions about certain aspects to get your feedback. We will consider your responses carefully when we make our final decisions.

I bolded the things I feel Capcom complete misses the importance of in their obsessive rebalancing.
They always take away from the character’s individuality and what makes then unique.
They also make many combo options and things we’ve practiced obsolete.

Wish Tecmo and DOA was taken more seriously, the game is very well balanced out of the box in my opinon, stages are amazing and the characters are supremely well done!

3533

they rebuild the engine, they don’t use “another one” per se. that’s the problem. also, you can tell santa clause that t4,5 and 6 use a different engine. it’s obvious that it’s the same, just polished. there is a reason why t6 runs on the psp(!).
I play tekken since the very first game, and use paul ever since. I can tell you, that he always felt the same (tekken 1 and 2 are so sluggish, I don’t count them). he has the same moves, and by that i mean THE SAME moves frame by frame often and only gets more and more and more stuff (like every tekken character). however, tekken 3 paul and tekken 6 paul ain’t THAT different. combos I used in t4 are still usable in ttt2 for instance.

after a certain point, quantity doesn’t bring additional benefit to a fighting game. at some point, you need to make a cut, and FOCUS the stuff you’ve done so far and scrap something and go from there. TTT2 is an exception, but for T7 I hope they don’t carry EVERY single character over again. It’s obvious that there is less development and rebuild, If you have to modify 60 characters instead of 30. there are comparison videos where you see that Tekken 4 (or 5?) moves were copy / pasted frame per frame, with the EXACT same animation into Tekken 6.

Scrap all the moves from all characters, decide which are important to the character, reanimate them, par the iconic moves and even those can change slightly and give them a few new, but overall WAY WAY less than there currently are available. T4 is imo the best part of the series (not only had it the most features [I never understood why you make a game WORSE with the next title?!] and felt the most refreshing to me. the roster was also rather small, making vast matchup knowledge for each character possible. you could say it even has too few (another 5 wouldn’t have hurt).

Tekken is stagnating for a reason - it fails to pull new players into the game. if you haven’t played T4,5,6 etc you won’t start now. It’s too daunting to get into it, seeing others have like up to 16 years of advantage. There is no reason to if you weren’t into it before, It’s just more of the same, every time. partly that’s a good thing, but for tekken, it’s bad.

A good SF 2 player isn’t necessary good in SF3 or SF4, just as a SF4 player is not good in SF3 or SF2 etc. A good T3 player will be somewhat decent in T6, as a TTT2 player will be good in Tekken 5, even without ever playing it.

3534

Everytime I see someone complaining about the patch, I just look at the match footage of the 25th anniversary tournaments. Yeah, this game needed a change, because when pr rog and floe can get that far relying on just one move. Yeah, you have players like Sethlolol and Jibbo who can take full advantage of every aspect of their character, but the bottom line is individuality was getting his ass kicked by conformity. Look at Canada Cup, that was so boring that I just turned it off and watched AE instead. And the players who supposedly like the game are just as boring at it, doing llllllmh with Rolento and Rufus? Timeouts because neither player refused to move from their respective end of the screens for the first 20 seconds? Screw that, bring out SFxT v.2013. Maybe this will be the swift kick in the balls that people need to try and learn the Tekken side.

3535

The v13 update emphasizes the uniqueness of the characer imo. instead of jab fighter we’ll see true zoning and oki - things where different characters have their strengths and weaknesses.

Also, the concept of “just buffing the weak” doesn’t work in a competitive game.

Lets say a character has a easy, very cheap 500 combo of a s.lp. now you have to put everyone on that level, thus making the overall game balance “broken”, since EVERYONE is broken. MvC2 all over again, and that was a TERRIBLE game when it comes to balance and overall diversity.
Now if you tone that down to 350 and buff every other character on that new “high” level you’ll get where the game should be.

Nerfs are part of the balance and are required. granted, sometimes they seem / are too harsh, but I’ll rather take that, then having to deal with cheap stuff exclusively.

3536

i just had flashbacks of your anti DLC gem points 6 months ago

3537

why? xD

3538

PM’ing because I’m not going to muddy things up here.

I will say this aloud: I don’t think you really said anything deserving that kind of response. It’s your opinion, unless there’s some post of yours where you just went off on the Tekken community for no good reason.

I kinda’ agree in the sense that the move lists could use some trimming, and that the roster can be unforgiving at times. But, that’s also what the fanbase wants. There has to be a balance struck, and let’s be honest: fighting game fans are some of the most difficult to please. Even removing one character that some people fall in love with can mean a loss in fans right then and there, before mechanics are even discussed.

I say that as the guilty party myself, as I still clamour for Karin to somehow magically appear in SFxT, a game with a 50+ roster as-is.

This is the one thing that the creative side of entertainment faces in all walks of life… “man… fans are really attached to this character/mechanic/attribute of the show, but uh… we were kinda’ planning to kill that off… fuuuuuuck how do we do that now?!”

I won’t lie - T4 was my least favorite precisely because of some of the mechanics they changed and more so the massive character cuts (and Jin’s ridiculousness). T5, I felt, rectified a lot of what I disliked about T4, without overdoing it and while bringing back everyone I enjoyed playing (except Kuni :(). Essentially, I’m as big a part of the problem. XD

I don’t know what it was that drew me away from T6 aside from the horrific online.

In any case, it’s apparently a touchy subject!

…end of the day, I really don’t know. I just play what I like, which at the moment is SFxT by a landslide. :-\

I think they (Capcom) do try to keep things from changing too much, but they get too caught up in trying to please the lowest common denominator. At the same time, the game really is not being looked at favorably by most, and people at both levels are asking for drastic changes (not most of us of course). I know we love the game as-is barring a few minute things, and I’m not for all the changes, but finding a middle ground there isn’t easy.

Honestly, I agree, but I also get why people are adamantly against it too (to an extent - some of it I think is over-reaction). They enjoy the game as-is, they don’t want that to change, and as we all know even a slight change can turn things in a completely different direction. I’ve “come to terms” as it were with most of the changes, but not everyone wants to and that’s fine. Can’t fault them for that. Hell, I was adamantly against it on day one - I didn’t really calm down until like day 5 when we got the system changes. :razzy:

My dream change would have been if they made very minor changes, gave the Tekken cast some viable AAs, and made rolls throwable rather than fully punishable… but that’s not what’s happening, and I’m not going to die or cast the game aside because of it. But, that’s me. I just look at it, think about what I’ll have to change and then go form there.

Granted, I’m not that great of a player so I’m sure that has a lot to do with it, lol.

3539

no clue… just first thing that came to mind

3540

is it a positive or negative thought tho?

I only want you to think dearly of me! /homo