Gunfight is a white dude living in Japan.
Gunfight is french and lives in Japan
So English is at best his 3rd language. Since he’s from eu he probably speaks or can understand up to 5 different languages since eu has a different language for damn near every country.
The idea that most people from EU speak more than one language is… curious.
Yeah, that’s rather the exception than the rule. Some basic English as a second language is usually the best you can hope for in most European countries and sometimes even that is asking too much.
Eeeh, sorry for off-topic, just realized this isn’t the lounge.
I’ve watched Gunfight stream a bit. He is at least tri-lingual, and his English is fluent.
And Necalli. I’m not sure why he flies under the radar but he’s a beast. His vskill and charge move are rough for me if anyone has any tips.
Charge move is -6 or so on block. Free punish.
There’s nothing you can do against the v-skill on the ground but if you read it it’s a free jump-in.
some characters can actually react to it.
cammy can super it or do a s.a or hooligan (ex)
the best way to not get blown up by necallis vskill is to not be too obvious with your buttons at mid screen. i use it to make people chill on the buttons so i can dash in.
Many people from Europe speak their native language and often English because for a lot of technical fields it’s sort of become the common language for science and other fields.
Not all people in Europe go at the uni or work in fields that require an extended knowledge of English.
lounge 2.0 status confirmed
Yeah definitely going to make sure this doesn’t get too heavy into lounge territory so I’ll have some matchups by tomorrow to start discussing.
The goal being to have an analysis and matchup number and slowly refine the matchup chart until we get numbers that look good to show off. Of course with regular changes as characters and patches come through
French are notorious in western EU for being among the worst english speakers :^)
Since someone started with the idea of comparing the characters based on specific criteria, I decided to make a list about projectiles. Here’s all projectiles in the game ranked from the fastest to the slowest (startup+recovery):
[details=Spoiler]Ibuki air Kunai: 20 (+ landing)
Akuma air Hadouken: 20 (+ landing)
Ibuki Kunai: 33
Guile EX Boom: 36
Guile VT Boom: 36
Ibuki Kunai release: 37
Juri L Fuharenkyaku: 37 (* recovery cancellable)
Nash EX Boom: 37
Guile Boom: 38
Chun EX Kikoken: 38
Ibuki EX Kunai: 40
M. Bison EX Blast: 40
Guile VS Boom: 41
Laura EX Clap: 41
Chun H Kikoken: 44
Ryu EX Hadouken: 44
Urien EX Sphere (ground): 44
Chun M Kikoken: 45
Ken EX Hadouken: 45
Nash H Boom: 45
Urien EX Sphere (AA): 45
Akuma EX Gohadouken: 46
Chun L Kikoken: 46
Dhalsim EX Yoga: 46
Laura Clap lv1: 47
Nash L/M Boom: 47
Ryu Hadouken: 47
Akuma Gohadouken: 48
Ken Hadouken: 48
Guile VS: 49
Urien H Sphere: 49
FANG EX Nishikyu: 50
Urien L/M Sphere: 50
Rashid L Whirlwind: 52
Dhalsim Yoga Fire: 53
Akuma L red fireball: 55
Urien charged EX sphere (AA): 59
Rashid M Whirlwind: 60
Akuma M red fireball: 61
FANG Nishikyu: 61
Rashid EX Whirlwind: 61 (* recovery cancellable)
Ibuki air Kunai release: 66
Akuma H red fireball: 67
Laura Clap lv2: 68
Urien charged EX Sphere (ground): 68
Akuma EX red fireball: 69
Rashid H Whirlwind: 71 (* recovery cancellable)
Urien charged H sphere: 72
Urien charged L Sphere: 81
Laura Clap lv3: 83
Urien charged M Sphere: 83
MISSING:
M. Bison VS fireball
Ryu VT Hadoukens (charged/uncharged)[/details]
Some interesting things to notice:
- as expected, Ibuki has the overall fastest projectile in the entire game, but due to its nature she can’t put up any fireball war with anyone
- Juri’s low projectile has actually the 2nd fastest recovery in the game (even less if you consider that she can cancel it), but she has to store it first
- Chun in general has a surprisingly good fireball game, but she also requires the most charge time
- only Guile, Ibuki, Juri and Nash have projectiles that are faster than the fastest jumps in the game (38f)
- all of Akuma’s red fireballs are terribly punishable by jump-ins. All other projectiles with that startup have AA properties
- despite the appearances and the slow startup, Laura can keep up with Akuma, Ryu, Nash (except H boom), Ken, Urien and Rashid with her regular uncharged fireball. The projectile though disappears pretty fast
- nobody can keep up with Guile in a fireball war except Chun if she spends meter
- Urien has to charge his fireballs to keep up with anyone, and even with that he can’t keep up with Guile
Urien doesn’t really need to keep up with fireballs as his are more so designed to just take up space. His MP fireball is probably the fastest traveling non EX fireball in the game so it’s essentially a slower Dhalsim normal in the form of a fireball. If you know the opponent is going to poke or generally do something that isn’t jumping they’re forced to respect it immediately. Then of course you can mix it up with AA fireball to deter them from jumping.
Gonna start the first set of matchups we’ll discuss. I’ll choose about 4 or 5 matchups I feel are interesting enough to start.
I’ll be coloring in the matchup chart I made as we gain more concrete numbers for each matchup. Orange will be matchup we are discussing and green will be the numbers are finalized (for the time being).
**Boxer vs Guile. (Theoretical numbers 6/4 in Boxer’s favor)
**
Video Chris G Guile vs PR Rog Boxer
Feel this would be a good one to start with. 2 of the supposed strongest characters in the game. Guile tends to be discussed as best in the game (even though I don’t personally think so). Either way it’s good for Guile to be strong in a game that people tend to say is too offensive/momentum based. He can keep that part of the game in check.
As for the matchup I feel this is one of those matchups where Rog tends to have the advantage. Especially once he gets meter as he’ll have a lot of options to bully the projectile game and seems to be able to matchup with Guile’s buttons alright. Jump normals like Rog’s j.MK can nicely sail over a predicted sonic boom and tag him into full combos. Guile gets his V Trigger quicker with 2 bars now which is good to help take command of the neutral and turn things around, but it’s just not as explosive as Rog’s V Trigger which gives you like 3 or 4 chances to take 30 percent or more of your opponent’s life away per chance.
Urien vs Gief. (Theoretical numbers 6/4 in Urien’s favor)
Video Itazan Gief vs Duke Urien
The number I have for this matchup might be kinda off and they’re just placeholder, but I think this is a matchup where Urien has a lot of tools to command the neutral. That’s not to say that Gief doesn’t have options and probably more than he did before, just Urien is obviously going to be able to put more things on screen than Gief can. Gief has to health to take a crush counter or 2 from Urien and Gief putting crush counters on Urien will hurt him, but he can take it as well. I’ve noticed charged fireball can particularly be a challenge for Gief although he can headbutt the fireball and I believe block the second hit or cancel into another move to try and nullify the second hit. Both Urien and Gief V Triggers seem dangerous for each other as Urien can litearlly put up a wall against Gief to zone him rather freely unless he has V Trigger. Whereas Gief shuts down a lot of Urien’s normal zoning once he gets trigger ready.
Guile has strong basic movement, but he doesn’t have any body hurling moves to throw him out of the way of a corner. So once he gets pushed towards a corner, odds are Boxer will keep him there or kill him there.
**Ibuki vs Dhalsim. (Theoretical numbers 6/4 in Ibuki’s favor)
**
Video Majorboy Ibuki vs YHC Mochi Sim
Dhalsim has options to pester Ibuki with in this match, but with her buffed health and faster kunai reloading, she definitely has what she needs to kill Sim faster than he can kill her. He can’t really take up the air space too much with his fireball as any MK command dash can just dash in and punish him on reaction. He has some good buttons like s.HP, s.HK, s.MP and s.MK to pester her with, but she can counter poke with her f+HK, s.MK and can even occasionally catch his limbs with a LP raida which essentially sucks him in. Dives can be annoying but Ibuki can use HK kazekiri to stuff early attempts to dive. Generally once Ibuki gets in with meter (especially V Trigger) he has to get really scared as all it takes is one hit to start tearing into his health and stun and he only has so many V Reversals to get her off. Which even if he does she still has the movement and ranged game with her kunais to always force respect out of him from a range. Especially now that Ibuki players have refined her post combo oki and reset game, he can’t survive too long against her post combo set play anymore (especially with the buffs in her conversions and frame traps)
Her HK command dash and faster jump speed help a lot vs Sim as he has to do a lot of committing to keep her from getting in from the air. All it takes is one landed jump in or frame trap off the cross up and she’s in.
**Ryu vs Vega. (Theoretical numbers 5/5)
Video Daigo Ryu vs Pontio Vega
**
I’ve heard this matchup may be in Ryu’s favor still, but just threw the numbers down as even for placeholder. From what I’ve heard it’s mainly Ryu’s projectile game and DP that forces a certain amount of respect from Vega. I guess parry may be able to gain Ryu heavier punishes on some of Vega’s neutral tools as well.
**Juri vs Fang. (Theoretical numbers 6.5/3.5 in Juri’s favor)
**
This is a matchup I’ve wanted to discuss as I’m picking up Juri now and always wondered how she fared vs him. There’s almost no high level footage of this matchup in Season 2 that I’ve found. Which is good because it makes this more of an interesting matchup to discuss. Wanted to pick at least one weird matchup. I’m thinking her new charged v skill pretty much shuts down any projectile game he may want to try. Which considering that’s a big part of how he sets up poison that should force a lot of respect out of him. With that said I’ve seen that his HP poison balls can stuff random attempts to charge the v skill are definitely going to outrange hers with the threat of some solid CC buttons. Interesting to see how we can make this one play out.
Might as well put my numbers down , probably won’t be agreed with but -
3.5 - 6.5 Guile
4-6 Rog, Rashid, Bison, Dhalsim, Urien,
4.5 - 5.5 Necalli, Cammy
5-5 - Chun, Nash, Laura, Zangief, Vega, Akuma, Karin, Juri, Alex, Birdie,Ken, Mika, Ibuki
6-4 Fang (debatable still)
Matches that could change by .5 would be Ken down, Laura up and possibly Bison down.
Bison I feel is not explored and underrated, at least against Ryu he removes Ryus fireball almost completely from the match ( v-skill, axe punch, Headstomp) which is always a telling sign.
Zangief is another possible up because of the meter build on headbutt.
Since someone had the idea, I made some research about the okizeme game of each character after throws. I only did throws because 1. including all KD possibilities would’ve took an extremely long time 2. throws can’t be backrolled, which means you have always the same setups on QR.
I apologize if some numbers or meaties are not accurate but I was exhausted especially towards the end. I welcome any correction.
Legend:
ft = forward throw
bt = back throw
AD = after dash
hits meaty = hits on frame 1 or 2 (beats frame 3 armored moves/invincible DPs)
AKUMA
[details=Spoiler]dash: 16f
ft: +22 (+6 AD)
- midscreen: st. MP, cr. MP, st. MK, cr. MK, sweep hit meaty AD; walk and cr. HP beat 4f+
- corner: throw loop; almost everything can be done
bt: +18 (+2 AD) - no follow-up
Demon Flip: +11 (-5 AD) - midscreen: all buttons, EX Goshoryuken, EX Gohadouken hit meaty
- corner: all buttons, b+HP, Goshoryuken, EX Gohadouken, EX Demon Flip hit meaty
EX Demon Flip: +11 (-5 AD) - same as regular version[/details]
ALEX
[details=Spoiler]dash: 19f
ft: +17 (-2 AD)
- midscreen: st. HK, L/M/EX Slash Elbow, L/M/EX Flash Chop hit meaty
- corner: all buttons, f+HP, L/M/EX Slash Elbow, L/M/EX Flash Chop, Power Bomb hit meaty; throw loop possible after walk if the opponent hits buttons
bt: +8 (-11 AD)
Power Bomb: +15 (-4 AD) - st. HK, L/EX Slash Elbow hit meaty
EX Power Bomb: +15 (-4 AD) - st. HK, L/EX Slash Elbow hit meaty; L/EX Flash Chop beats 3f
Power Drop: +6 (-13 AD) - no follow-up
EX Power Drop: +15 (-4 AD) - st. HK hits meaty; L elbow beats 3f
Air Knee Smash: +23 (+4 AD) - midscreen: all lights, st. MP, L/M/EX Flash chop hit meaty AD
- corner: all buttons, f+HP, Flash Chop, throws, Power Bomb hit meaty
EX Air Knee Smash: +23 (+4 AD) - all lights, st. MP hit meaty AD
Head Crush: +5 (-14 AD) - no follow-up[/details]
BALROG
[details=Spoiler]dash: 17f
ft: +23 (+6 AD)
- midscreen: Dash Straight, Dash Grand Blow, M/EX Screw Smash hit meaty; cr. MP, cr. MK, cr. HK hit meaty AD; TAP beats 4f+
- corner: throw loop; everything hits meaty
bt: +12 (-5 AD) - mid-screen: st. HP, cr. HK, L/M/EX Dash Straight, EX Dash Grand Blow, L/M/EX Screw Smash hit meaty
- corner: every button hits meaty[/details]
BIRDIE
[details=Spoiler]dash: 23f
ft: +12 (-11 AD)
- midscreen: sweep, L/EX Bull Head hit meaty: Bull Horn, EX Chain beat 4f+
- corner: every button hits meaty
bt: +15 (-8 AD) - midscreen: EX Bull Head, EX chain hit meaty
Killing Head: +23 (0 AD) - f+HP, df+HP, L/M/EX EX Bull Revenger hits meaty
L Hanging Chain: +21 (-2 AD) - every follow-up possible including throws
M Hanging Chain: +19 (-4 AD) - no follow-up
H Hanging Chain: +22 (-1 AD) - EX Bull Head hits meaty
EX Hanging Chain: +29 (+6 AD) - f+HP, df+HP, L/M/EX Bull Head, EX Bull Revenger Head hit meaty; st. MP, f+HK hit meaty AD
Bull Revenger: +26 (+3 AD) - f+HP, df+HP, L/M/EX Bull Head, EX Bull Revenger hit meaty; light buttons, regular throws and Killing Head hit meaty AD; cr. MP beats 3f AD; st. MP beats 4f+ AD
EX Bull Revenger: +20 (-3 AD) - df+HP, L/M/EX Bull Head, walk forward+sweep hit meaty[/details]
CAMMY
[details=Spoiler]dash: 16f
ft: +9 (-7 AD)
- midscreen: VT Spiral Arrow hits meaty
- corner: any button hits meaty, f+HK beats 3f
bt: +15 (-1 AD) - midscreen: M/H/EX/VT Spiral Arrow hits meaty
- corner: any button, any special and forward throw hit meaty
Hooligan throw: +6 (-10 AD) - VT Spiral Arrow hits meaty[/details]
CHUN-LI
[details=Spoiler]dash: 15f
ft: +15 (0 AD)
- midscreen: st. HP, f+MP, walk forward+st. MK hit meaty; f+HK beats 4f+
- corner: every button, f+MP, walk+b+HP hit meaty; f+HK beats 3f
bt: +23 (+8 AD) - midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: st. HP, f+MP, walk+cr. HK, walk+st. HK, M/H/EX Kikoken, L/M SBK, Hyakuretsukyaku and throw hit meaty; all normals, b+HP, b+HK hit meaty AD
air throw: +21 (+6 AD) - all buttons, f+MP, b+HP, b+HK, f+HK hit meaty either raw or after dash/walk[/details]
DHALSIM
[details=Spoiler]dash: 21f
ft: +23 (+2 AD)
- midscreen: st. MP, st. HP, st. MK, cr. MK, st. HK, sweep hit meaty; st. LP, st. LK, cr. LK hit meaty AD; throw loop AD possible with microwalk or if the opponent hits buttons
- corner: throw loop; every button hits meaty
bt: +17 (-4 AD) - midscreen: st. HP beats 4f+
- corner: same as mid-screen ft without dash[/details]
FANG
[details=Spoiler]dash: 20f
ft: +8 (-12 AD)
- mid-screen: no follow-up
- corner: every normal but st. HK hits meaty; df+HP beats 4f+
bt: +13 (-7 AD) - midscreen & corner: every normal, EX Sotoja, EX Ryobenda hit meaty[/details]
GUILE
[details=Spoiler]dash: 18f
ft: +5 (-13 AD)
- midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: throw loop; st. LP, cr. MP, st. LK, st. MK, cr. MK, sweep hit meaty; st. HP, f+LK, b+HP beat 3f
bt: +14 (-4 AD) - midscreen: every normal or command normal but f+MP, Sonic Boom hit meaty; throw loop after walk
- corner: same as mid-screen, but you can also throw
air ft: +28 (+10 AD) - pretty much any follow-up
air bt: +2 (-16 AD) - no follow-up[/details]
IBUKI
[details=Spoiler]dash: 16f
ft: +5 (-11 AD)
- midscreen: M/H/EX Kazekiri hit meaty; st. LK, df+MK, sweep beat 3f
- corner: all lights and mediums, df+MK hit meaty; sweep beats 3f
bt: +19 (+3 AD) - midscreen & corner: Kunai hits meaty; Kazekiri hits meaty AD; cr. MP, st. MK, cr. MK beat 3f AD; df+MK beats 4f+ AD
air throw: -4 to +5 - no follow-up
L Raida: +20 (+4 AD) - midscreen: st. HP, st. HK, sweep, df+MK, f+HK, VS, Kazekiri, Kunai, EX Raida hit meaty; all lights and mediums hit meaty AD; b+MP beats 3f AD; Raida beats 4f+ AD
- corner: every button, every special and throws hits meaty
M Raida: +18 (+2 AD) - midscreen: M/H Kunai hits meaty
- corner: same as light version
H Raida: +18 (+2 AD) - midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: same as light version
EX Raida: +20 (+4 AD) - midscreen: H Kunai hits meaty; H Kazekiri beats 3f
- corner: same as light version; automatically puts you at grab range
[/details]
JURI
[details=Spoiler]dash: 16f
ft: +13 (-3 AD)
- midscreen & corner: all medium buttons, st. HP, st. HK, sweep, H/EX Fuha, stored V-Skill hit meaty
bt: +9 (-7 AD) - midscreen: H Fuharenkyaku hits meaty
- corner: every normal (but st. HK), b+HK, Fuha store, H/EX Fuha, throw hit meaty
air throw: +7 to +11 - pretty much every follow-up possible[/details]
KARIN
[details=Spoiler]dash: 16f
ft: +5 (-11 AD)
- midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: throw loop; all lights and mediums, JF Tenko hit meaty; st. HP beats 3f; sweep beats 4f+
bt: 0 (-16 AD) - no follow-up
Ressenha/Guren Ken > u+K follow-up: +28 (+12 AD) - pretty much every follow-up possible[/details]
KEN
[details=Spoiler]dash: 15f
ft: +17 (+2 AD)
- midscreen: all lights hit meaty AD; b+MP beats 3f
- corner: throw loop; everything hits meaty
bt: +11 (-4 AD) - midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: all normals but st. HK, b+MP, EX Hadouken, L/M/EX Tatsu, Shoryu hit meaty; st. HK beats 3f; L/M/H Hadouken beats 4f+[/details]
KOLIN
[details=Spoiler]dash: 17f
ft: +8 (-9 AD)
- midscreen: st. LK, cr. MP, st. HP, st. MK, cr. MK, sweep, L/EX Parabellum hit meaty; st. HK beats 3f
- corner with back against wall: all buttons but st. HK, L Parabellum hit meaty; st. HK beats 3f; throw loop
bt: +12 (-5 AD) - midscreen: all buttons, L/M/EX Parabellum, Hailstorm hit meaty; b+HK beats 3f
- corner: all buttons, L/M/EX Parabellum, Hailstorm, throw hit meaty; b+HK beats 3f
air throw: +14 (-3 AD) - midscreen & corner: st. MP, st. HP, cr. MK, sweep, b+HK, M/EX Parabellum hit meaty
- corner with back against wall: every button, b+HK, L/M/EX Parabellum, Hailstorm hits meaty[/details]
LAURA
[details=Spoiler]dash: 17f
ft: +17 (0 AD)
- midscreen: L/M/EX Bolt, f+HP, EX Sunset Wheel hit meaty
- corner: all buttons, f+HP, L/M/EX Bolt, EX Sunset Wheel hit meaty; microwalk + L Sunset Wheel beats 3f
bt: +16 (-1 AD); throw loop possible after walk - midscreen & corner: cr. MP, st. HP, cr. HP, st. MK, cr. MK, st. HK, sweep, f+HP; L/M/EX Bolt, EX Sunset Wheel hit meaty
M/EX Bolt Charge: +18 (+1 AD) - P follow-up: all buttons, f+HP, L/M/EX Bolt, EX Sunset Wheel hit meaty; st. LP beats 3f AD; throws, VS overhead beat 4f+; tick throw possible except against 3f jabs CH
- K follow-up: same as back throw for meaties; st. LP beats 3f AD; throws, VS overhead beat 4f+
H Bolt Charge: +17 (0 AD) - midscreen: L/M/EX Bolt, st. MK, st. HK, sweep, f+HP, EX Sunset Wheel hit meaty; st. HP, cr. HP beats 3f
- corner: L/M/EX Bolt, f+HP, EX Sunset Wheel, all medium and heavy buttons but st. MP hit meaty; st. MP beats 3f
Sunset Wheel: +13 (-4 AD) - st. HK, sweep, L Bolt hit meaty
EX/VT Sunset Wheel: +15 (-2 AD) - same as regular, but is loopable with EX version[/details]
M.BISON
[details=Spoiler]dash: 22f
ft: +24 (+2 AD)
- midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: df+HP, sweep, Psycho Inferno, Double Knee Press, VS fireball hit meaty; all lights hit meaty AD; throw loop AD; cr. MP beats 4f+ AD
bt: +18 (-6 AD) - midscreen: df+HP, sweep, Psycho Inferno, Double Knee Press, VS fireball hit meaty
- corner: every button, Psycho Blast, Psycho Inferno, Double Knee Press, VS fireball, throw hit meaty[/details]
NASH
[details=Spoiler]dash: 19f
ft: +5 (-14 AD)
- midscreen: f+LK hits meaty
- corner: st. MK, f+LK, b+MK hit meaty; st. HP, st. MK, cr. MK, sweep beat 3f; cr. HP, st. HK beat 4f+
bt: +10 (-9 AD) - midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: all buttons, EX Boom, L/EX Scythe hit meaty; f+MK beats 3f; f+HK beats 4f+
air throw: +22 to +24 - no follow-up[/details]
NECALLI
[details=Spoiler]dash: 17f
ft: +19 (+2 AD)
- midscreen: all lights, cr. MP, st. MK beat 3f; st. MP beats 4f+
- midscreen (VT): throw loop; all lights, L/M/EX Raging Light hit meaty; cr. MP, st. MK beat 3f
- corner: all buttons, Raging Light, L/M/EX Valiant Rebellion, L/M/EX Disc Guidance, L/M/EX Mask of Tlalli hit meaty; throw loop
bt: +32 (+15 AD, -2 ADD) - midscreen: Disc Guidance, VS hit meaty; all buttons, Raging Light, L/EX Valiant Rebellion hit meaty AD; throw loop
- corner: all buttons, all specials, VT, df+HP hit meaty; throw loop
Mask of Tlalli: +1 (-16 AD) - midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: st. LP, cr. LP hit meaty[/details]
RASHID
[details=Spoiler]dash: 15f (can run up to 41f)
ft: +16 (+1 AD)
- midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: all buttons, f+MP L/M/EX Spinning Mixer, L Eagle Spike, L Whirlwind Shot VT hit meaty; st. LK hits meaty AD; throw loop if no 3f
bt: +20 (+5 AD) - midscreen: L Mixer, L/EX Eagle Spike hit meaty; cr. LK, sweep hit meaty AD; cr. LP, cr. MP, st. HP, st. MK, cr. MK, f+MP beat 3f; cr. HP, running L Spinning Mixer beats 4f+
- corner: all buttons, f+MP, Eagle Spike, L Spinning Mixer, VT hit meaty; f+HP beats 3f; running L Spinning Mixer beats 4f+[/details]
R.MIKA
[details=Spoiler]dash: 18f
ft: +3 (-15 AD)
- midscreen & corner: EX Shooting Peach beats 3f
ft against crouchers: +30 (+12 AD) - midscreen & corner: pretty much everything hits meaty
bt: +12 (-6 AD) - midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: all buttons and command normals but st. HK, L/M/EX Shooting Peach, all throws and command grabs hit meaty
Rainbow Typhoon: +11 (-7 AD) - midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: all buttons and command normals but st. HK, L/M/EX Shooting Peach, all throws and command grabs hit meaty
EX Rainbow Typhoon: +15 (-3 AD) - no follow-up
Brimstone: +20 (+2 AD) - midscreen: M/H Shooting Peach hits meaty; lights hit meaty AD; st. MP beats 3f AD; loopable into regular throws, L/EX Brimstone, L/EX Rainbow Typhoon AD
- corner: everything hits meaty
EX Brimstone: +21 (+3 AD) - midscreen: same as regular version, but cr. MP, st. HP, cr. MK beat 4f+ AD
- corner: same as regular version
Wingless Airplane: +20 (+2 AD) - midscreen & corner: same as Brimstone
EX Wingless Airplane: +20 (+2 AD) - same as regular version[/details]
RYU
[details=Spoiler]dash: 16f
ft: +6 (-10 AD)
- midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: all lights and mediums, st. HP, cr. HP, sweep hit meaty; throw loop possible after microwalk (only if opponent presses buttons)
bt: -2 (-18 AD) - no follow-up[/details]
URIEN
[details=Spoiler]dash: 16f
ft: +11 (-5 AD)
- midscreen: st. MK, cr. MK, sweep, f+MP, L/M/EX Tackle, M/H Headbutt, VT hit meaty; st. MP, cr. MP, st. HP beat 3f
- corner: all non-held normals, f+MP, L/M/EX Tackle, Headbutt, EX Sphere hit meaty; throw loop
bt: +11 (-5 AD) - midscreen: all non-held normals, f+MP, L/M/EX Tackle, M/H/EX Headbutt, EX Sphere, VT hit meaty
- corner: same as forward throw[/details]
VEGA
[details=Spoiler]dash: 17f
ft: +13 (-4 AD)
- midscreen: sweep, (claw) st. MP, cr. MP, f+HP, (hand) st. MP, cr. MP hit meaty; (claw) st. LP, cr. LP, (hand) cr. HP beat 3f
- corner: all normals, EX FBA, M/EX ASE VT hit meaty; throw loop
bt: +8 (-9 AD) - midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: sweep, (claw) all punches except st. HP, (hand) all punches except cr. HP, VT hit meaty; cr. MK, (claw) st. HP, (hand) cr. HP) beats 3f
air throw: about +14 (-3 AD) - midscreen: no follow-up
- corner: all buttons, (claw) f+HP, EX FBA hit meaty
Izuna Drop: +12 (-5 AD) - midscreen: sweep, (claw) f+HP hit meaty
- corner: all normals except cr. MK and (claw) cr. LP hit meaty; EX ASE beats 3f
EX Izuna Drop: +14 (-3 AD) - midscreen: all normals, regular throws, L/EX Grand Izuna Drop hit meaty
- corner: all normals, regular throws, L/EX Grand Izuna Drop, M/EX ASE hit meaty
Grand Izuna Drop: +14 (-3 AD) - all kicks, (hand) all light and mediums hit meaty
EX Grand Izuna Drop: +19 (+2 AD) - (hand) all lights hit meaty AD; throws beat 3f; Grand Izuna Drop beats 4f+[/details]
ZANGIEF
[details=Spoiler]dash: 25f
ft: +15 (-10 AD)
- midscreen: st. HP hits meaty; f+HP beats 3f
- corner: all normals and command normals, L Siberian Express, Lariat hit meaty; throw loop
bt: +25 (0 AD) - midscreen: all normals and command normals, Lariat, L/M/EX SPD, VT hit meaty
- corner: same as midscreen but all SPD hit meaty
L SPD: +22 (-3 AD) - no follow-up
M SPD: +27 (+2 AD) - cr. LP, cr. LK hit meaty AD; st. MP, cr. MP beats 4f+ AD; throw loop AD
H/EX SPD: +27 (+2 AD) - all normals and command normals hit meaty; throw loop AD
L air SPD: +23 (-2 AD) - midscreen: cr. LP, st. HP, st. HK hit meaty
- corner: cr. LP, cr. MP, st. HP, cr. MK, st. HK, sweep hit meaty
M air SPD: +25 (0 AD) - all normals and command normals hit meaty
H/EX air SPD: +27 (+2 AD) - all normals and command normals hit meaty; throws and SPD beat 3f
Siberian Express: +24 (-1 AD) - midscreen: cr. LK, cr. LP, st. HP, st. HK hit meaty
- corner: everything hits meaty
EX Siberian Express: +19 (-6 AD) - midscreen: st. HP, st. HK hit meaty
- corner: everything hits meaty[/details]
EDIT
(27/02) added more Alex and Karin info, corrected Dhalsim midscreen throw loop
(28/02) added Ibuki’s Raida since it counts as a grab on wake-up
(01/03) added Kolin
(12/03) correction about Guile (he does have a midscreen throw loop); added Akuma’s Demon Flip throw and Kolin’s air throw
Number of characters with throw loops:
Meterless midscreen: 5 (Dhalsim [only if button pressed], Guile, Necalli, R.Mika [c. grab], Zangief [c. grab])
Meterless corner: 11 (Alex [only if button pressed], Akuma, Balrog, Karin, Ken, Kolin, Laura, M.Bison, Rashid [4f+ only], Ryu [only if button pressed], Urien, Vega)
Limited loop: 2 (Chun-Li, Juri)
No loop: 6 (Birdie, Cammy, Chun-Li, FANG, Ibuki, Nash)
SOME FINAL REMARKS
- There are only 4 characters that get 50/50s off throws anywhere on the screen since Laura’s back throw was nerfed. Dhalsim and Necalli are the only two low commitment vortex characters.
- 2/3 of the cast has throw loops of some sort and almost half of it has corner loops. Loops are at least still conceived as a reward for cornering the opponent.
- Among the less obvious ones, Balrog has probably the scariest and most varied oki game off throws in SFV, especially considering his corner carry, his good sweep and the great advantage after forward dash. He’s two inches off being a true vortex character.
- Guile’s back throw is not less powerful than Urien’s own one.
- 3 grapplers out of 5 have no throw loops at all or very limited ones (Birdie gets a 50/50 off L chain, Laura can only loop EX grabs or in the corner). Alex’s and Laura’s grabs set up meaties, not throws.
- Cammy, Karin, Nash and Ryu have the most unrewarding throw game in SFV.
- Ryu didn’t really lose the corner throw loops, they just made them very difficult to land.
P.S. I don’t think though any of these data gives any relevant information about MUs (except for characters without 3f normals).
GREAT POST!
Nice , I’m was half way through making a vid with the same info but left it because of the patch. Great work!