Again. Yes fix the hitboxes. Or in other words make his jump ins better. The thing I’ve been saying this whole time
We know what the problem is, we just don’t agree that it’s actually a problem, especially in the case of a premier zoner. It’s like asking for guile or menat to hav better jumpins. Sure those characters ar top tier, but it’s just kinda crazy to ask for. Better to ask for the shit he’s been asking for, better buttons.
All though the biggest buff he and every other zoner needs is for anti fireball moves to be harder to use on reaction, or always be unsafe on block. That’s all that really needs to be done for this game to make zoning better.
I mean if we are going to be talking about total bullshit, how about sagats stupid st.hk CCing crossups CONSISTENTLY… shit is dumb… but he’s an AA character so it’s w/e. Shouldn’t be jumping at him that predictably anyways.
Guile and Menats jump buttons are serviceable. Sim has drills. Even Falke. But not Sagat.
Im gonna let it go…
Idk i agree with Hall and i feel like yall are intentionally arguing against him in bad faith.
If a girls gets drunk and some guy takes advantage of her, Jin and Dime are saying its not a problem bc she shouldn’t have been drunk. Like yes it’s technically correct but that doesn’t make the following act ok or excusable and it’s not really the point.
Yes he shouldn’t have been jumping at Guile but that doesn’t make the fact he was anti aired the way he was any less ridiculous. It feels like you guys are being intentionally disingenuous because “muh matchups”.
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You really should. Guile has to charge his projectiles… sagat doesn’t, menat doesn’t even have a real fireball…
Both are better characters than sagat for various reasons (menat gets a reflect? Wtf, guiles v skill is probably broken or close to it etc) but that doesn’t man sagat needs better jumpins…because both guile and menat need certain things toned down.
It’s like me saying chun needs a better jumpin (she does) but it’s not actually what she deserves for her archetype nor for the game. What she deserves for the game are a better way around fireballs and a slightly better upclose game. That’s it. But asking for a better jumpin would just show I don’t know chun or the game.
Well, in Sagat’s case specifically, it’s pretty easy to spot the problem (jlk presented here)
Same with his jhk unless you space it out further
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The red isnt a hurtbox is it…? Please say no
The red outline is a hurtbox, yes
It indicates projectile invincibility
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That’s an absolutely terrible analogy because it isn’t game based, isn’t balance based, and is highly subjective.
DJ and I aren’t being disengenuous. We are literally saying “sagat doesn’t deserve better jumpins because he has lots of good shit already and his specific archetype doesnt call for good jumpins and shitty jumpins are something that characters more deserving of good jumpins, have to deal with as well”
Or some such. Sagat deserves some stuff, good jumpins aren’t some of that stuff, atleast imho.
Sf5 trues very hard to not make any character too all around. Every character has pretty big weaknesses, even menat and guile pale in comparison to other characters in certain aspects.
What makes menat and guile stupid is that they are too strong in their specific archetype. Like if gief all of a sudden got a buff for his command grabs to do an extra 150 damage each… same character, just way better. That’s menat and guile with respect to zoning tools except that instead of a ridiculous 150 da,age CG, they get like an extra 75 damage CC… but for zoning…
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Lmao. Wow. But apparently he should keep it because good fireball and 92’ fundamentals
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Necalli is not top tier. The popular thing to say is that he’s boring but people don’t drop top tier characters because they are boring.
He’s just not really good. Mid tier slightly above.
I don’t think sagats hurtboxes are any worse or better than most other characters on his outstretched jump attacks. What I’m pretty sure is happening is one of 2 things or maybe both:
His hurtboxes BEFORE his jump attacks are in active frames are expanding more than other characters.
His jump attacks especially with regards to his jhk, are slower than normal and tend to get hit in startup frames.
I KNOW number 2 applies, but I have a feeling number 1 is more present than people realize.
Could you take a look at the 6 or 7 frames on sagats jhk BEFORE it goes active?
Necalli is just super all around, that’s all there is to it. He’s not overly weak in many areas, he’s not overly strong in many areas either.
He’s very much a character that will only take you as far as you are good.
His best overall thing is his v trigger, his worst overall thing is his stubby normals.
How do y’all go about learning a new character with all of the different seasons? The forums are dead, YouTube is only for certain things, I don’t use Twitter etc etc. Like finding a season 3.5 character guide for someone who isn’t new this season seems impossible. Is the only option to hit the lab for a few hours?
Frames 1-10
Frame 11 (1 frame before active)
No shift/expansion of the hurtbox other than those 2 states
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I would say yes hit the lab. However a new season doesn’t make all old information invalid. You just have to weed out the invalid stuff based on the changes.
Like when i was maintaining Vega’s combo/tech thread, like 90% of the information was the same between patches. Just had to add and takeaway a combo here and there.
Also afaik every character has a discord with relevant info/discussion.
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sagat with the slim jim sized hitboxes
Yep, just as I thought. The hurtbox is rather huge pre active frames.
It looks like he has the original active frames hurtbox damn near, except before he’s even active.
The combo of that and his slow startup speed are what would make it so shitty.
Thanks for the heads up on discord I wasn’t exactly sure what it was but been hearing about it for awhile now just downloaded it and immediately found every bit of information I needed in a guide updated for 3.5 . On a random note I couldn’t imagine trying to learn a game in the arcade only scene back in the day, the internet has spoiled everybody lol.
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Don’t have time to read past the next bunch of posts, but Dime - Sagat loses to all of the other zoners -
Has bad jumps
Bad dash
No ground closer ( bullshit ex)
Nothing that goes through FBS ( don’t say kara uppercut).
No Oki
No air trajectory changing move
Not giving him a jump in is fine, but he should have one of those other things.
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