Yeah the point is against a Guile that actually knows what they’re doing you’re not even going to get that close to begin with. The strategy you’re performing on the Guile is suboptimal regardless.
You remember the important stuff and don’t need to remember 40% of their frame data
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I feel like you guys are arguing different things. Dime and Jin are saying you shouldn’t of jumped and Hall is saying he was anti aired by an input error on an otherwise good jump because Sagat has enormous hurtboxes on his air attacks.
I just think he wants more than he deserves. Sagat already has one of the best fireballs in the game, one of the best AA games in the game, some of the furthest ranged normals in the game.
He’s going to have to lose a lot of good stuff to get that. That’s all I’m saying.
Chun deserves more shit before sagat does imo.
I’d like chun to get her old plus on block legs. But I’d like it to be her air ex legs. All of a sudden she’s good again without being busted. Also make it +5 on hit.
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I don’t think it needs to be a competitive of X character needs more before Y character.
Sagat and Chun are both mediocre, they need buffs. Let’s not try and put one on a pedestal for needing changes prior to another.
Sagats normals are atrocious, and Chun doesn’t have a tick throw and her VTs are underwhelming.
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Hall is wrong. The jumpin was terrible. Let’s look at the facts as hall put them:
He jumped OVER A BOOM in range for sagats crossup… ok fine this can be a good jumpin.
Guile had enough time to recover and throw out a slow normal…
Yep, it’s now a BAD jumpin. Because hall either jumped a slow boom with a really slow reaction from nearly point blank (bad jump) or what more likely, he jumped over a STALE boom (guile has recovered completely and is following the boom and has no recovery to speak of) which isn’t a bad jump… it’s a HORRIBLE one. He’s lucky he didn’t get airthrown. Coming out that situation eating nothing but a BHP is actually good.
On to sagats shitty ass jumpins… yeah they’re shit… so stop relying on them?
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Yeah if you have those ground control tools but are wanting to get a cross up on the American Wall of the game then you can only be helped so much. It’s a luxury if you even get there and no guarantee if you even get there.
We know what he’s saying, but it doesn’t mean he shouldn’t have gotten anti aired.
We know he hates that jumping hurt boxes are big, but if you’re going to jump against the American wall and he recovers from his boom, then he can actively move and there’s no guarantee of anything. If Guile decides to block Sagat’s jump then that’s not even really that bad for Guile really considering Sagat’s sub par pressure.
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Lol I remember this and it was fucking hilarious before Capcom nerfed it a month later. I think he can still do a ghetto version of it with j.mp if you time it right since it shifts his hurtbox up. I got a few people with it way back when.
You got Abigail now so no big deal. Rugal still loves Vega any way.
The thing I’d give Chunli most of all is Ed or Falke style 2 or 3 button inputs on her jumping kicks of fury.
Same with Dhalsim’s teleport as I think he should’ve been made incredibly mellow to play with regard to command inputs. They called it yoga after all…
A double button input for the iall would definitely pull her more in line with sf5 executional standards. As it is, the move isn’t terrible but it’s extremely limited with its ridiculous execution making it exceptionally hard to throw out with crisp timing after a blocked jab or medium or even just a stagger.
The thing is that Vega was actually decent for like half a season then immidiately got clapped in (I think) 2.5 after making no waves lol. I’m convinced there is some godtier Vega player at Capcom HQ that is always beating Ono in sets so the rest of us are paying for his sins.
From what i can tell Rugal and a lot of other Vega players are in some kind of weird denial about the character. Like they know he won’t get real buffs so they pretend that he isn’t low tier. It’s a good mentality I guess.
Yeah I’ve seen it work really well as throw bait but as you can imagine the player was one of the best. But it was cool when he did it as it’s unique to Chun.
She should get fireball buffs in both VTs too 
Well “for him” is kinda my point. Sagat needs better jump ins. Thats the whole reason i brought it up. More than one person told me his jump ins were fine.
They aren’t
I dont even think his pressure is sub par. His front throw oki is better than probably 80% of the cast.
Well, most jump ins aren’t that good because of their hurtbox RS, nothing new here. Crazy hitboxes/hurtbox iterations happens 24/7 in SFV, never saw Abigail hitting fools with his Run Punch even if the opponent is grounded behind him?
Overall his pressure is pretty sub par compared to the best characters. Slow jump, reactable forward dash, mediums that have good plus frames but push him out pretty quickly if blocked, tiger knees are lackluster and so on. His forward walk is slightly better than it was in IV, but the other stuff kinda makes it less relevant. Sagat doesn’t really have great tools for getting in throw range to begin with.
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That means its ok?
Why cant we fix shit like that?
That’s Vega players in general. If he were to start getting near top tier again they would just talk about his weaknesses. If anything believing he’s decent gives them more strength than wallowing in how bad he is. You’re not going to put as much effort in or just switch characters if you believe he’s super bad.
Actually the problem isn’t the buttons.( Although Guile shouldn’t be able to AA you with cr.jab, beyond retarded).
The problem is the hurt box is long and sits underneath the hit box. What should happen is that the hurt box is only situated at the leg part of the move ( the bit you are trying to kick/punch them with), not the ass part of the character model.
What’s happening is the Cammys, Birdies , whoever’s of this world are hitting the hurt box that is on your back side, so it doesn’t matter if you are literally on the other side of the character, a red box hitting that large green box is Gona result in an AA. Hence why AA jab still works.
They need to fix the hurt boxes not the moves.
I’m sure akhos can chime in with an illustration picture using any character jump in.
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