So I was watching Plup vs Leffen from 2017. Not a whole lot of zoning.
Where all the zoning at? Who is winning with projectiles or even dhalsim-like zoning? You guys have greatly overstated projectiles in smash.
aCho streaming Type Arcade
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You will have to link the match, but I’m going to make some assumptions.
It was a small stage.
One of the characters was fox/Falco.
Samus isn’t doing shit in those circumstances.
If you watch Xrd-sets of Machabo vs Samitto you won’t see Ky throw stun edges much either. Chipp is too fast.
That’s kinda how Fox vs Samus goes too.
SMASH THE TAXES donation goal of 5k I’m cracking up how is he still doing the tax thing
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We can talk about Xrd too if you want because a lot of the cast is all up in your face too. But what I’m trying to sort out is where is the zoning and defensive wins at?
Yeah some characters are gonna have to play defense, but that whole game (at least in the case of Melee), is basically RTSD and pick your flavor. You wont win by chucking anythinf as a strategy.
Not trying to be mean here, but how many games at all function that way. Your strict definition of zoning, kinda feels like stating that “games that aren’t SF aren’t SF”. Even in SF outside of ST, just “chucking anything” isn’t really a top tier strategy.
Jiggly wall of pain is the best thing in the whole game, and is literally limb based zoning. Now, the distance it’s done at isn’t as far as a dahlsim, and she doesn’t say “Yoga” but it’s a similiar strategy.
Samus is the guile gameplan However, the top tier characters negate her game very well, so you won’t see it often. You don’t see a lot of pure SF style zoning in high level SFV either, but it doesn’t mean it’s not there.
I’m actually played competitive Melee a long time ago, so I’m speaking from my knowledge not from watching vids.
SF4 combos are quite cool. 
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Cable and Spiral in MvC2 function that way.
Hawkeye in 3 and MvCi functions that way. Morrigan, Doom, Magneto could all play dedicated zoning in some match ups on 3.
Nu in CT functions that way.
Lots of characters in SF4.
Falke, Menat and Guile, Old Zeku functiom that way.
Guess I’ll make you a list of other games where characters function that way too.
Besides excusing the situation as stage thing is kind of dishonest in that it ignores a million banned stages.
Nu was not just in CT that way…
You should play more BB Pertho and push more for it.
I mean, when I can help random people, who say they have “interest” to get into the game, you can do so too.
Based on your examples, your definition of zoning does include what you can see out of smash. However, they may not be common at the highest levels of play due to matchup. Even then, limb based zoning from Jiggly is the single best strategy in the entire game. To the point where people briefly discussed banning the character.
This isn’t to dissimiliar to SFV where you also don’t see pure zoning strategies (winning) a lot in top level play. Or to use one of your examples, Hawkeye is a pure zoner (mostly) and he’s also not great in that game. Dorm would have been a bit better, but he’s still very much a hybrid.
I also think your Nu example isn’t really that good. Nu is a hybrid and more of a full screen mixup character than a SF style denial character.
You can’t ignore stages in smash, stage selection is as much a part of the matchups as VT selection is in SFV… except it actually matters in smash.
I also want to state again, my comment does not come from a casual observation of the game, I really played competitive Melee.
I have to correct. Thats actually more Lambdas Job now, rather than Nus.
Nu is a fullscreen Zoner, whos plan is to pin you down and Bombard you with Projectiles. Her Mixup game is pretty weak and unsafe, especially if someone has decent range on their normals. Her basic D blockstring ends in her being punishable.
Lambda wants to pin you down, to get a mixup and send you into the Corner, where you can become one with the Wall. Her Pressure and Mixups are also a lot safer (outside of Spada, but Spada is in general bad).
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Yes.
Jokes aside, most of the people are no different than at any other event.
I actually don’t know where that “problem” started… but I have read about the problems.
I was specifically talking CT. I admittedly don’t know much about the current BB meta.
The problem is CT Nu was so good at so much, that trying to run a pure “denial” strategy was often underplaying the character. She could flip between RTSD and full screen bullshit at the drop of a hat.
Well Lambda replaced Nu in CS, but turned into her own thing as time went on.
So as Nu came back with CP, they gave her 2 Movesets, with a stance to switch between.
What then got removed with CPE as Lambda came back as her own character and took her own moveset back from Nu and Tartar from Arakune.
Also CPE Nu was also Top Tier, but not the kind of fun Top Tier, she was immensly boring to play. But her Neutral was so overwhelming that she just shate on most of the cast and Tager had to face his CT Nightmares again.
Current Nu is like Bottom 5 according to America and Mid-Hightier according to Japan.
Japan also puts Lambda into High Tier, while america rates her bottom 3.
Make your own picture out of this.
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My knowledge drops off after CS2E as that’s where I stopped playing so much.
That’s kinda the problem with full “denial” style diners in a lot of anime games. When that is their whole game plan, when they are top tier, it typically means that they basically jail the cast… which is really not interesting for anyone.
Anyways. New MK character:
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That character looks like MK’s version of Injustice’s scarecrow and he sounds like a Khajit from Elder Scrolls.
Looks like garbage, as expected.