Would sound easy, but some games and characters have defined their gameplay over slower or executional based movement. Characters like Makoto and Slayer exist because of their reliance on OD dashes over walk speed. Take that away from them and just give them very fast walk and they’re not them anymore.
Even though it technically makes things unintuitive, Tekken and Smash have defined their gameplay around people learning stick gymnastics to make their slow walk characters move around. Competitively those games are designed around twitching the stick being part of the game’s identity. Marvel 3 had that to a degree also, but you can get by without it if you pick certain characters.
The variety is what gives the games and characters identity even if fast walk speeds is the easy route.
As for really old SF’s like SF2’s and Alpha, your statement has merit
Once 3S hit though it really changed what is acceptable as far as dash/walk speeds and there’s wide varieties in that game of who walks and dashes faster forwards and backwards. That bleeded into IV and V also. Which V has also turned some characters like Dhalsim into semi anime characters where him having fast walk would also make zero sense.
This all kinda goes into something that I’m not the biggest fan of in NK11 so far and I’ll bring that up after I mess with it for a bit.
I mean, the reality is SF 3-5 were designed with dashes in mind, so taking dashes out of those games would be foolish. I’m just saying t doesn’t need to continue to be a trend for SF games going forward. The dash should not be a required inclusion, just like you don’t “need” sprint and ADS in a shooter.
I don’t think it’s a real problem. Just improve walk speeds a little more for who needs them and lengthen dash recovery/start speed for certain characters who have faster dashes than they need and good to go. Dashes have never inherently been an issue.
Dash! Dash! Daaaaash! To be top!! (Weeb moment,sorry )
I’m with @Frost here, the dash speed and range in SFV are the problem, not the dash as a tool.
I love execution barriers when well implemented, for me doing something ‘hard’ to gain a big reward is satisfying. Not almost impossible to do, but something that needs some practice. I remember when people tried to do the classic SF4 Ryu sho FADC+Ultra to feel ‘like Daigo’ at the very start of the game, even that aspect kept people interested in working harder. SFV focused on other things and that isn’t bad, but a bit more of execution required with reward sounds good.
It’s definitely the biggest part of it. The companies believe if they take out really esoteric executions that it will allow those who want to invest in it to do so more easily. They know pads inherently have a disadvantage with piano/plinking commands and such (which is why pad players usually complain about sliding inputs like that). I remember a Jago player in KI who could only do auto doubles, but he was able to survive based on that. Whereas if S1 KI worked so that only manual link Jagos were effective he probably wouldn’t even be able to play the game since in that season single damage pokes did so little damage any way.
Seasons 2 and 3 basically forced everyone to do auto doubles and use a tiny selection of manuals that telegraph themselves. Making the breaker game a lot less fun and making it so IMO you were really just better off playing a regular combo game where you just get rewarded faster for hitting people.
The interesting thing about 3S/MVC2 and CVS2 is that their executions were put into the game more by the players than the developers. A lot of the heavy execution stuff we do is man made through exploitation of the mechanics. Only certain things like JFs and EWGFs are hard put into the game and usually people push those further into the actual execution requirements.
Even during the dark ages Capcom usually created extra balanced/EO versions of the games that removed stuff like the crouch cancels and roll cancels. Effectively removing execution requirements in a way on its own and adding things like analog flicks for special moves.
It’s always been a thing really. Just more so now.
Some execution barriers are good and some are bad I think.
An example of a bad barrier are things like just frame inputs for attacks (ultimate example, Akira’s Knee), or stupid motions (like the pretzel motion).
However, there are other that are fine. As @DevilJin_01 mentioned the player created stuff you see in marvel games, or smash games is good. And some intrinsic things like SF4 viper (mostly) or BB Carl are good.
The key to me, is to never make performing the basic actions difficult, but let the act of combining all the elements be whatever it is, even if it’s hard.
Yeah, there’s a difference between hard execution barriers (SFIV-style 1f links, EWGF, taunt jet upper, VF Akira) and stuff with a high execution ceiling (korean backdashing, most of Xrd’s combo system, etc). The latter can be developed and refined over time, and is interesting and often even lets the player express themselves through the system. The former gets you punished for not hitting unreasonably tight shit, and locks an often important part of the characters (or even the game) behind it, thus necessitating that you spend a lot of time grinding out that specific thing before you’re allowed to play properly.
The shitty part about SFIV’s combo executions is you had characters like Vega who needed to do 1F links to do combos that were shittier and did less damage than characters who could do the same or better damage off 2 frame links or cancels. Having to do needle in haystack execution for less reward makes no sense. All part of unintended link combos from the devs being exploited and forcing those scenarios years later.
Characters with funky hurtboxes who force changes in execution like Blanka and Elena were lame also.
Execution is kind of a tricky beast for discussion. There are examples of them not creating issues to having a lot of unexpected problems.
Generally I feel like making a move purposefully hard to do for a benefit is dumb. So all of the Just Frame nonsense namco does for tekken and SC is stupid. But there is something very rewarding about doing mechanically hard things in a fighting game.
So it feels like there’s a certain amount of execution that makes the games feel good. Where the line is though, is a diffrent issue altogether.
There’s also the shit like the fact that I fucking hated SFIVs combo system, but I love doing EWGFs. There’s no logic to it, I just like one thing while I loathe the other.
I still think EWGF is pretty bad design overall but I generally forget that when I DOURYA someone to death.
The nice thing about EWGF and other JFs is that they’re usually only attached to certain characters. Even though it is inherently an issue in the long run, there’s always someone else you can play who relies less around them. Just sucks if that’s the character you wanted to play.
With SFIV the whole game is predicated on most of the cast having to unlock just frames that require them modifying their sticks to get the most out of their bnbs. That was really the worst part is that the execution requirement was attached to bnbs and not just like more esoteric corner/confirm/meter scenarios.
Flashy combos are cool and all, but people get turned off when the only way to do damage after a hit is doing a surgeon operation in tiny milliseconds. The casual audience can’t see what work you’re putting in to to do the combo and it just makes your life harder for no reason.
That’s why I like Samurai Shodown coming back. It’ll bring back some 90s style fighters where it’s not all about inputting a bunch of shit just to play the game. It’ll also show that you don’t have to make baby buttons and inputs games like Fantasy Strike just to have that intuitiveness.
That, and people KNOW when you hit the JFs and give you mad credz and all the chicks and shit, unlike in SFIV where it’s kinda just eh when you hit a hard link since that’s what you have to do in the first place.
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