idk every other competitive esport doesn’t throw comebacks at you as hard as FGs do and they have way larger scenes.
I get tense watching some of the old SFIV ground battles still, you very rarely feel that in V although it does happen sometimes, you just have to have had every fucking resource drained without one of them dying
SF5 has artificial comebacks when compared to other fighting games. The lack of chip damage deaths on top of the v-triggers boosting your ability to do bullshit for extended period of time has sucked any meaning out comebacks. Probably why that one Daigo comeback was so special, it was just gameplay not SF5 shenanigans.
Wong’s comeback against Yipes still the hypest comeback. Don’t @ me.
my favourite match is still Daigo vs HumanBomb, Guile vs. Chun-Li. Was a super good footsie war all the way through the set, great watch and a good change of pace.
For those who haven’t watched it:
The king of lame.
oh across all games
way too many to choose from tbh, Valle vs Bonchan always gonna be one of my favs for sure. Wong winning MvC3 as well, that was great.
This is REAL Street Fighter
I swear to god is there something in this game that just skips inputs from time to time or something? Sometimes in matches I try to block an upcoming attack, then I just get hit
Like does this happen to anyone else here?
It happens to me every now and then. Really strange.
That’s never happened to me even once. In fact sometimes when I’m in the middle of a block to forward and am being attacked I know if I was blocking or it was too late to hold back. I will say this though, I had so much trouble canceling akumas st.mk into tatsu no matter how much I practiced it, turns out it was my controllers dpad as it was too new and stiff, as soon as i used my older controller that problem was gone, so sometimes it might be your controller I guess.
The problem with the v triggers is that some of them offer round finishers from almost full health. Maybe the Ultra system was shit, but you took your medicine and it was done. You were out, free to outplay the opponent again.
V triggers now carry momentum and stun into each subsequent knock down, which basically means you gotta guess 3/4/5 times instead of just 1 with an ultra even after the actual trigger has ran out you’re probably on your ass at frame disadvantages one hit off stun.
The perfect balance for a v trigger for me is Sakura’s V2 or Cammys V1. Sakura because it’s powerful but actually needs to be confirmed and Cammys because it makes her better, but not ridiculous to the point of ending a match.
A trigger that can win a round on its own is bad design.
Ultra’s were just way less impactful on the meta than V triggers. They were like one big combo damage boost maybe once a round and some characters had ultras that barely saw any use - like Honda. V triggers on the other hand happen at least once a round and can completely sway the outcome of a match.
Not saying one is better than the other but ultra’s were way less scary as a comeback mechanic.
lmfao I just made a Gief rage quit with my Sakura by playing lame… I don’t remember the last time someone rq’d on me
edit: it was casual too, lol
I hate cinematic supers that go on longer than about 3-4 seconds so ultras were kinda bootleg too.
I hate being given more power than the winning side for losing.
I do not enjoy instant gratification in games, at least competitive ones.
All ultras at least required you to land a hit confirm (barring oddballs like elena and rose, but those were super tame compared to v trig). None of them really gave you free pressure and more ensuing opportunities for easy and prolonged pressure
The only comparison that makes sense between ultras and v trig is that they’re both “comeback factors”.
V trig is pure anime insanity
And now I’m playing and defending G’s, because it’s needed to stay high mid to top tier and to compete with all the other retardedness out there. I don’t like it, I’d rather have better walkspeed with a toned down v trigger. But whatevs, it’s in the game and i’m gonna abuse the shit out of it, because it works.
The funny thing about VT’s is that when you’re so use to having a great one, you can feel handicapped even if you’re using a good one. I think Akuma’s VT2 is pretty good, but if you want fat damage then you have to earn it honestly without using the VT.
This strangely feels very hard and even unfair at times when I’m so use to popping VT1 with a 3 hit red fireball shield and then bullying people with VT air fireball and then getting a hard knockdown if I land the DP.
Yeah well your characters got one so you can be quiet lol.
VT2 at least requires me to commit to a mad risky command grab to get started
Goddamn finally got ultra gold! I’ll be taking a long break from ranked. Platinum is my real goal right now but seeing how I struggled for this I ain’t quite there yet.
Falke’s VT2 still sucks. You won’t get anywhere in a tournament with it because you will eventually be in a situation where you need to mash button that gets blocked into activate and you can’t really get that done safely with VT2. It’s not like Ibuki’s VT2 where you still get a minus 2 mix up as long as you have a bar of meter. Falke doesn’t have the pressure before the activation to make something that you must land on hit worth it.
Only character I’ve considered using it against is Rog since it will deter his minus 4 stuff a bit once you have 2 bars. Other than that, the cons are still too big even at 2 bars. It’s more useable than before, but you can’t carry it into a tournament and expect to do any better than you would with VT1. The tools she gets are also very situational and the only real good ones require you to hit the opponent first.
VT1’s trigger shots allow all kinds of new angles to lock up the screen and promote frame advantage in ways that she normally can’t. Plus rack up really strong white chip and can’t be reflected/absorbed by normal v skill reflects.
Some people can prefer the way VT2 works, but logically VT1 is still better. VT2 is missing very basic aspects that are required to have a real trigger. You can’t survive in tournaments with a minus 20 something on block trigger that rewards you with nothing really new in neutral that you can safely enforce on block.
The only thing that pissed me off about ultras was eating one on wakeup, but that was easy to get around so ultras didn’t piss me off that much.
The only thing that pisses me off about v trigger is when I beat someone’s ass and they get their comeback trigger before I get mine, then they make a comeback and kill me before I ever get to activate.
This happens quite a bit and is annoying as all hell. But other than that they don’t bother me. I like comeback mechanics because no one is ever out of the fight. This happened naturally in the oldschool games becaus the oldschool games had huge damage. You were never out of it. It didn’t alter if your opponent had a perfect and you were down to 5%. 2 guesses or one combo and you take the round. But in new school where everyone wants the games to be low damage, comebacks are near impossible without some form of comeback mechanic. So basically you get:
Marvel with no comeback mechanics, where people just drop their psylocke/capcom/assist character and allow the other guy to win.
Or you get high damage like ST where comebacks are commonplace and every decison counts.
Or you get a comeback mechanic…
Now… there’s a bunch of different ways to do this. Some better than others. But if the comeback mechanic is too weak, it’s basically useless.
So what do you do? Any choice you make has detractors except for one:
PERFECTLY balance your comeback factor. But that’s way easier said than done, and might in fact be impossible without some huge amount of general homogenisation.
Tldr
As long as games are low damage we will have either comeback mechanics, or people letting go of the controller and not playing past a certain point.