Fixed.
In general I’m not in love with team play SF and I don’t understand the necessity of this shit tbh. People want to know just one damn thing atm from Capcom and instead of delivering they’re in full Carmen San Diego mode.
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When somebody tries to flex on you on a perfectly normal interaction in SF5 and it happens to be an SRKer.
Facebook is cancer.
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Why people want more ways to go back to neutral, if the neutral is bad in this game?
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Best way to don’t have any kind of your opponent smoke.
Because a lot of whats fun in SF is the neutral portion. This game has been desperately trying to send the game back there more often in weird ways because pushback in block doesnt work like normal.
Just a weird goofy SF in a lot of ways.
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I get all that. Im not even saying we need them back. I just disagree with that one specific argument. Chip kills are unfair if you don’t have a fireball
Neutral is definitely the most fun aspect of SFV to me.
If I was interested in offense I would probably prefer any other series. Which is why I don’t understand why it’s so neutered in this game.
Edit: Also going back to comeback mechanics for a second. The problem for me is that Capcom has been super heavy handed with the concept in the last two games. You get either a free half health super or a free super install. What the games needs is a comeback mechanic that isn’t super oppressive.
People hate NRS games, but Injustice 2 did it perfectly imo. You get fed way more meter for getting hit than anything, which grants you more defensive options and stronger offense. It also improves your one time burst. It’s seamlessly integrated into the entire game instead if just being some huge mechanic slapped on top to create ridiculous swings.
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It’s all relative. Offense is shitty in this game but the defense is also poor to compensate.
Just think, if they removed the priority system or brought back meterless DPs you would see how weak a lot of the offense is.
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Which is my whole issue with the game. Everything outside of VT is trash. It’s just that offense is the biggest side of the triangle with defense and neutral.
To be fair, you could use a similar argument against the existence of supers. The player in the lead has already benefited from taking away his opponent’s life, why reward him with super meter that will ultimately make it even easier to take away his opponent’s life?
Why have damage scaling at lower life? It only prolongs matches. Those dramatic comebacks that people are so hyped about often consist of some player who should have lost, but who gets to steal a victory due to damage scaling.
More seriously, Dime listed a number of reasons why you do lose options for being behind, even if your character theoretically has not lost any ability.
Another difference that Dime didn’t cover is the loss of the ability to take hits getting in. Some characters are intentionally designed around the idea of taking damage in order to deliver more than they took. That style of play is lost when health gets low enough. Further, that isn’t an “even” loss, some characters are hurt more than others.
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Damage scaling is another garbage mechanic. It’s probably my imagination but it feels like it gets out of control at low health in this game.
You could absolutely make that argument about supers, and I even agree. In fact, this is a complaint I’ve leveled against the “stun” mechanic before.
In the case of the super mechanic, I would argue the added depth and design space from the mechanic greatly over the “win more” issues.
I am not sure I could make as compelling a case about most comeback mechanics. To its credit SFV tries to counteract this with the CC and Vskill systems. But the question is, does all of that really add a lot of depth to the game? Especially compared to the normal super meter?
Maybe a revenge mechanic can be done in a way that fleshes out the game more, but I’m not sure I’ve seen it yet. I can tell the SFV designers were really thinking about that, I just don’t think it worked.
To be clear, I’m not saying that being behind is the same as being ahead. You are clearly at a disadvantage. However, I’m not sure that’s such a disadvantage where the game need to go out of its way to prop you up. This isn’t a team fighter where losing a character is a massive effect on you ability to perform, nor is it an RTS or MOBA where each little victory debilitated your opponens options and increases your own.
Another clarification, I’m not against revenge mechanics nor do I think they ruin games on their own. However, often times their design doesn’t go much further than, making losing… not losing?
The game doesn’t lack defensive options like what every baddie says, that knows nothing. What the actual problem is is the lack of pushback and nothing to combat THAT. There is literally nothing to combat the small pushback the mediums and heavies give in this game.
You always have to guess between big gap or fake gap or never ending medium medium medium Xn pressure.
That’s where the game lacks defensive options.
But capcom has to do something. Peop,e complained about jab offense so capcom added pushback to jabs. But now there’s no great way t9 be offensive and the damage is too small for an entire round… so now the “low pushback” moves have become mediums that can be one hit confirmed.
I disagree that sf5 is well built. I will however agree that the game is trying… but tbh, capcom needs t8 understand when to and when NOT TO listen to players butch and moan and complain. Lots of people have no idea what their ideas will actually do to gameplay. Like as an example, I just said that lack of pushback is a big problem in THIS game… so doesn’t that mean that there should be more pushback? Well actually… FUCK NO. That’s a horrid idea. It would be good if other things were in the game, but those things are not in the game so making pushback go further on mediums would be a terrible idea.
Also, about neutral:
People say this is the most interesting part of a game. I once again respectfully disagree.
The most interesting part of a game is BREAKING neutral and gaining a mixup opportunity. But it’s onky interesting if breaking neutral isn’t an easy thing to do. Everyone loves hitting a combo right? Everyone loves applying some oki pressure right? Does everyone love just sitting there nick backing their opponents lifebar with 50 and 60 damage normals? I’m sure some do, but most don’t.
There is a neutral to mixup formula out there for this, but I don’t think any fighting game has really hit it outside of maybe ST in certain matchups and mvc2 at high level.
Skullgirls comes close, but the game is way to vortex happy and the first person to break neutral and get a confirm has a huge advantage. But breaking neutral in interesting ways to get strong mixups that can only be done once on block, is what fighting games should really be looking for.
Sf5 makes breaking neutral too easy but doesn’t give enough reward for breaking neutral.
Sfxt and cvs2 make breaking neutral harder, and the mixups aren’t all that great once in. There has to be a happy medium somewhere.
Sf4 shoto play seemed pretty close.
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To me the fun part of SF is being able to literally dismantling my opponent, I love to make the other feel stupid for even trying. I’m an offensive player and you know what? SFV isn’t 100% fun even for me, because now you don’t have to be a rushdown specialist to inflict damage, everyone can. You don’t even need a well placed jump in to go for max damage combos, there’s almost no height restrictions for them anymore. The awful normals are making neutral jumps effective even against non grapplers since you need to use a specific normal now and being successful with it isn’t bulletproof. I was used to get around the opponents neutral, but in SFV I feel like running behind them because their first goal is don’t get hits instead of outplaying me. That’s my SFV experience atm.
V-Reversals aren’t defensive options anymore, you use them the most when you have a good life lead or in extreme situations and moments of the match. V-Triggers are becoming so important that taking hits is more convenient than delaying the possibility of using your comeback mechanic.
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SFxT Pandora? Straight up scumbag come back mechanic, but soooo situational you never really saw it.
That was useless because it sucked as you say.
But it also didn’t add anything to the game. It was arguably even worse than Vtrigger or ultra as it didn’t interact with any other part of the game. If it was good it would be one of the worse revenge mechanics I’ve seen.
Thank god it sucked.
Amusingly, SFxT got around the slippery slope mechanic by just straight up ending the match when one character died.
Looks like the articles been taken down? I didn’t get a chance to read it. Even the tweet about SFL has been deleted, I wonder why that is
I think if the game had lived, Pandora would have fleshed out a bit more.
But it kind of illustrates the extremes- either a comeback mechanic is kept artificially rare (Pandora), or you’re going to see it used in nearly every match (V-trigger).
Personally, I don’t really mind having to take my opponents’ increasing options into account. I always feel like mitigating come back is part of playing smart.
The Tweet was re-done to clarify that it’s US only, not all of North America like they originally said.
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