Basically, I see her as an aggressive, highly mobile character with similar functions to Guy. One asset Maki has is the range on her tonfa normals, which provide a chance for competitive footsies if she has to play them. One big difference is that Maki had a back run in CvS2, in conjunction with said normals is a foundation for hit-and-run play while waiting for an opening on the opponent. The closest we have to this kind of character right now is Vega, but his ground mobility and basic mix ups are completely different.
Oh hey, a few more!
-Viper seems ok, but I’d work her feints into the V-Skill similar to how Balrog got them. Maybe holding the buttons cancels the animation?
-I had a whole thing on Necro, the short of it is he needs a total rework from SFIII. I suggested some kind of magnetism mechanic (homage to Blazblue’s Tager) and actual ranged grabs like Anakaris or Super Skrull. Lee would most likely be a fully-divided stance character, and probably needs 2 V-Skills.
[details=Spoiler] Bajiquan Stance
[list]
[] V-Skill: Shoulder Strike. Lee spins with projectile invincibility before striking with his shoulder, much like Yun’s special move. The neutral and back versions are done in place, while holding forward while you press MP+MK has Lee move forward during the attack. Holding the buttons feints the attack.
[] General move list: A leaping punch like Yun’s, the infamous dive kick, and command grab
[*] V-Trigger: Lee’s V-Trigger persists across stances, but each stance gains different features while Lee’s V-Trigger is active. In Bajiquan’s case, the juggle properties of his special and normal moves become much more generous, allowing for longer and better combos.
[/list]
Zui Quan/Drunken Master Stance
[list]
[] V-Skill: Drink. Lee leans back and makes a drinking motion. This builds a fair amount of VT for an upper-body invincible taunt, but Lee’s stun gauge increases by 20% each time he does this, but will never actually stun himself this way. Various follow ups allow Lee to go into other stance-type moves.
[] General move list: Laying Stance with a low kick and the ability to roll forward/backward, other moves provide a focus on mobility and bizarre angles
[*] V-Trigger: While in Drunken stance, Lee can add more time to his V-Trigger by performing his V-Skill ala Birdie. This is counterbalanced by the addition of several new special moves that cost VT to perform. Such moves include an auto-parry and breathing fire similar to Alpha/CvS2 Dhalsim’s fire supers.
[/list][/details]
Abel is pretty good too, more or less what I suggested. A simpler thing I thought of is letting V-Trigger Abel cancel specials into specials twice per chain but replacing Change of Direction with the individual moves as seen in Omega Mode. Once in V-Trigger, this effectively turns his entire move set into a rekka and opens the door for all sorts of fun.
Updating Sagat adding another special move, EX classification and bit of clarification.
1st SPECIAL
New Tiger Shot EX version is SF4 Tiger Uppercut EX version
1st SPECIAL - follow up (A)
1st SPECIAL- follow up (B)
2nd SPECIAL
EX move is Level 1 Tiger Raid from Sagat SF Alpha.
3rd SPECIAL (New)
Tiger Breaker -a quick blockable command grab that he stretches his arms and reach to different direction LP- Front, MP Ground and SP for Upward.
EX version grab is for any direction.
V-Skill: Angry Scar- Enhances non-projectile specials and EX by giving the next Tiger Uppercut, Tiger Knee and Tiger Breaker additional follow up finisher “Kick” as a finale hit.
V-Trigger: Sagat’s Tiger Cannon(Inspired from SFEX2 not from other SF4 or SFA) -Very fast like traditional Tiger Shot that nullifies other projectiles and deal with a decent damage.
Super: Tiger Genocide
My preference of Sagat in SFV will lose his zoning skills effectivity in projectile means to make his play style far from the usual and the likes of Fang or Dhalsim in the game, but keep his normals and all his specials with alteration like the new intimidating Tiger Shot visually similar in Wolfgang Krauser’s Kaiser Wave but different in terms of functionality because it works in a similar manner like K Dash’s Eins Trigger. He may also have the vibe in play style like K Dash a lot in specials minus the DP and teleport but he is unique than ever even if a K Dash alike will be in SFV because even his new only projectile Tiger Slash is never an independent move and turned into a follow up move only as a ground/lower based projectile that loss its overall technicality and application because of the lack of speed control even whatever button is pressed.
Dunno with Necro what they would do for him but that a good idea for electro magnetism. I hope they would manage to pull in a Zip line move like Spidey in UMVC3 its unvisited concepts for SFV. I have a concept with Lee sometime but now i’m trying find a way to make him more away from Gen and the Twins(Yun and Yang) fro possibilities. Trying to seek more inspiration.
Yes, they are pretty lame costumes, I agree, but the fact that they’re creating exclusive costumes like this (especially with all of the hoop-jumping) is pretty crappy.
Probably doesn’t mean much of anything, but I feel like if Capcom is putting out pages like the following (sunburned Sakura), then Sakura’s coming soon:
Finally replied with thoughts on Sagat sans Tigger upper. Seems there are two camps on how to deal with it. I wonder If Capcom would even go this route.
I can get behind a lot of this. Here are my corresponding thoughts.
Normals and Cmd.Normals
I like your selection; If anything, I could see a few target combos naturally flow from them.
Oh! Fake kick and HK could each have 1 hit armor while some kicks could hit twice if close enough.
Specials and EX
T.Shot doesn’t really need a change, but a mid range follow up could mitigate the loss of T.Upper; T.Cannon (from SFEX) would be my EX choice.
T.Knee having increased versatility/diversity between l/m/h inputs is a great idea, but maybe T.Genocide (from SF4) should be the corresponding EX?
Your rising T.Elbow seems like an interesting idea, but I’m left thinking of Abel’s cr.HP, Urien’s cr.HP, and Alex’s slash elbow; Instead, some of the desired properties could just pass to the T.Knee.
Your T.Clinch is very MuyThai approved. (would name T.Rake; T.Maul for EX) I also like The_Shakunetsu’s idea for variant directions on a blockable cmd grab. So long as the low grab is treated as an over head (must be blocked low) I would be for it. Still, I don’t think capcom will give Sagat a cmd grab (maybe they should) but he would feel much more MuyThai imho with it. It would help his limited AA game but might be too close to Abel’s two cmd grabs as well.
SF4’s Omega mode had a Tiger Claw special with Tiger Raid for EX; Could this be used to further extend his effective move list?
Various Tech
V-Reversal Seems the obvious choice; a good fit.
V-Skill I assumed a multi-tiered angry-scar would fit this place, but (without a T.Upper) your idea has won me over. While it’s Bison’s V-skill meets Dudley’s cross counter, I could see Capcom consider something like this if they boldly removed the T.Upper; Maybe even if they didn’t.
V-Trigger Well angry scar needs to be present somewhere and this would be it’s strongest showing.
CA I was thinking of a cinematic Tiger Raid ending with a set up for the last T.Upper in his SF4 Ultra (Tiger Destruction)
I was torn with your ideas. I just can’t see Capcom changing Sagat to favor any SNK Bosses inspired by him. The T.upper (at least visually) is here to stay, but like those other questionable “shoto” variants, his need not be a pure AA (or even a true special). Initially I liked the idea of the T.Upper being high risk high rewardp; Minimized invinc frames, high counter damage, easily punished. but If it’s not a special, I could see it added to the EX T.Knee and his CA.
Specials and EX
T.Shot not fond of loosing the low version, but the idea of a follow up could mitigate the somewhat absent T.Upper. If capcom did go with the one projectile, it would need to be big enough that it still hits crouching opponents.
T.Slash as a flow up is solid (once I got past seeing it in the anime) but it should be visually less SNK reppuken and more Captain Commado corridor or smaller version of Magneto’s em shockwave (tiger shock wave?) maybe hitting 1-3 times and plenty of recovery. Perhaps his raised fist could have a hit box too? If the fist hits, a T.Blow could follow up in place of the “slash” projectile.
T.Knee as a more expansive move fits for the shorter projectile range you were going for, but I’m just not feeling the direction. If it’s being similar to Gouken palm strikes, an EX that launches after with the other knee would make sense.
T.Breaker as much as I like the idea around a multi direction cmd grab that’s blockable, I don’t think a back breaker fits the emperor of MuyThai.
Variable Tech
V-Skill could you elaborate on the additional follow up finisher “Kick” as a finale hit?
V-Trigger I’m against the T.Cannon as his trigger because it would fit so well for Sean’s Hado Burst. With others having EX rep past supers I would rather it be his EX T.Shot.
Super or CA seeing Tiger Destruction’s finishing T.Upper a blazed is a very memorable piece of his SF4 iteration; I’d like to see it on a pedestal like Bison’s Psycho Crusher is in SFV and was in SFA. Something setting that move up, perhaps a raw T.Slash into cinematic combo…
I want characters where Capcom expands on their moveset instead of taking away the moveset they are known for, only to replace it with something completely different.
Not really like an SNK Bosses from Geese or Krauser since they are the closest example I could pull into they are also inspired in SF way. I just use it to describe the VISUALS of the projectile but the “Body movements/gestures” is still the same Sagat. I don’t really think that it matters if the projectile (fireballs, air wave and ki blast) have similarities in shape and colors in other fighting games just like how anime is.
While his play-style is definitely brand new and far from those that I mention to compare with not even close. He loss his usual “Projectile Zoning” advantage and technicality properties that relevance to what makes him compared to Ryu, Ken and would be with Fang and Dhalsim in SF5. I simply remove him away from the projectile zoning comfort zone that the many used as a remark or a called out problem for him to be a shoto in playstyle.
My Sagat’s normals will play the same way with his previous counterparts but now it will have more importance in close ranged and mid-ranged distance. Because my Sagat will lose the “instant” functionality and technicality advantage of the previous shoto defined moves.
The K Dash Ein’s Trigger that I commonly used as an example and reference is to describe the execution and somehow functionality is only for describing the follow up option with the my new larger Tiger shot but they differ in usability, properties and especially the follow up possibilities.
His nowhere near Geese, Krauser and K in visual and playstyle. This Sagat has the same Sagat vibe and flavor because of the movesets but without the shoto advantage, shoto goodness or playstyle.
The solution is my Tiger Slash that is a “follow up move” that will cover and accommodate for the loss of lower Tshot so it will still hit crouching opponents. It’s like the lower Tshot minus the projectile zoning advantage because of different startup speed, requirements/activation(follow-up-move) and has no speed control option because any button pressed doesn’t change it. It activates like how K Dash’s access the Second Shell.
Not really like an SNK Bosses from Geese or Krauser since they are the closest example I could pull into they are also inspired in SF way. I just use it to describe the VISUALS of the projectile but the “Body movements/gestures” is still the same Sagat. I don’t really think that it matters if the projectile (fireballs, air wave and ki blast) have similarities in shape and colors in other fighting games just like how anime is.
My goal is to remove Sagat’s “instant” shotofied playstyle and it’s zoning advantage that i eliminate all his instant ANTI-AIR the same with all his instant PROJECTILE. Now his AA and projectile needs the new Tiger Shot like K Dash’s Eins Trigger for activation comparison only because it’s a follow up move.
I choose the back breaker to emphasize his intimidating height, body mass and long arms than traditional grabs two hand hugs or grabs then putting a simplified action but with epicness to his knee like how the many see the Ryu Shin-Shoryuken or How Bane did to Batman.
I justify Sagat as a Mu Thai fighter only in his plot and slightly inspired in visuals that they don’t need to compromised with the realistic counterparts or modern interpretation of their martial arts with just the same name because they are not traditional and known to be far more advanced and ahead in their universe to establish such powerful techniques beyond than those we are familiar with and accustomed into the same way I see the fictional counterpart of Yoga in SFverse.
I believe nostalgic and iconic SF characters should be defined by their devout techniques/special moves as their “branding” or “style guide” like hadoken and sonic boom than their realistic just similar named combat disciplines. Because those are the most frequently used for linking and remembering than their fictional martial arts as reference but that is a different case when were doing it for new characters inspired by real life persons like Tekken usually does.
When Angry Scar is activated the next Tiger Blow, Tiger Breaker and Tiger Knee will have THAT kick the same finale ender shown in the GIF above. The GIF shows Starlord performing a “Shoryuken” style uppercut with a kick ender. It’s like the bonus follow ups in Spiderman’s Spider Sting and Sean’s Dragon Smash in SF3NG but very different.
I doubt it that we’ll see that soon to Sean from what is Sean now today.
I as i observed SF5 supers have a FORMAT that requires “quick animations” less than what SF4 is like Chun and Gief.
Agreed, except with that last part. He’s different.
I’d add Bison. His moveset right now is most representative of the character, but the battle design is flawed and needs a minor rework. Up there with CvS Bison to say the least.
So it’s sounding more and more like there will be at least two new characters right after CC. Obviously, Akuma is one. Not crazy about that, but the new stage looks cool.
The second could be Sagat, but him and/or Sakura feel way too Shoto with Akuma already being added. Well, can’t wait, all the same.
