Just skimming through Muskau’s Honda thread and decided to start this one…
When you do Honda’s AA VC and start with 2 hit RH, it’s a knockdown.
When you do AA VC with Cody you can start with d.HP (hit with the end of it) and it will also knockdown.
Normally, normal moves don’t cause knockdown like that. Gen’s KKK d.LK will also do it but I think that’s kinda different… it was made to do that in A2 even.
If the airborne opponent has already been in knockdown state, but air recovered, ALL normals will cause knockdown. But these examples will knockdown regardless.
Just curious as to why this happens, and are there any more characters that can do this? Does it work outside of VC?
I dunno, what is meant by Knockdown? I assumed counterhit FP/RK would cause a longer hit reel than normal. And within a VC all moves are supposed to contain the counterhit property. But still, Honda’s st. RK won’t juggle properly unless both hits connect, so maybe your right.
Is a FP/RK counterhit property different to the property your talking of here? I dunno.
And I hate that friggin Gen cr. SK, jeez that thing is annoying.
knockdown state: when being hit into the air (or out of the air) and you fall down on your back. The only time you can air recovery is when you are in this knockdown state I think.
Counterhit normals as anti-air, counterhit fierce/roundhouse against grounded opponents, and specials that take opponents off their feet or as anti-air will always cause knockdown.
But besides that most all normal moves don’t cause knockdown unless the opponent had already been in knockdown state and air-recovered. I guess knockdown is stored or something until you finally land?
example: ryu lands air-to-air hurricane kick near the corner, opponent air recovers, ryu executes VC, AA s.HP into whiff FB. If he hadn’t of landed the hurricane kick (which causes knockdown state) the VC wouldn’t work. They would simply flip back to earth through the FB (invincible) and land on their feet.
If you can land an special attack quickly enough AFTER your normal, so that they don’t get a chance to flip back and become invincible you can cause knockdown state starting with a normal.
example: Ryu does AA VC, s.HP into DP. DP connects right after the HP, causes knockdown (it’s a special), continue VC.
Then there’s another type of knockdown state “sweep knockdown” or something… that doesn’t allows juggles afterwards or something? I’m not sure.
You also can’t counterhit AT ALL during VC mode. VCs give your normals counterhit properities if you create a knockdown before or during your VC, and “store” the counterhit height/weight juggle properties after the VC (this allows infinites and extended cc strings). I think air-throws outside of VC/other -isms can also do this to some degree?
heh, way too much info.
But anyways, just try doing honda 2-hit RH, and not attacking afterwards. If they can flip, or land on their back, it’s a knockdown.
Yes, I tested out Honda’s RK against a jumping opponent, if both hits connect, it becomes a knockdown. I wonder if other 2 hit normals would have the same properties.
And also, I think the knockdown property is stored as long as the person is in the air, try hurricane kick and the when they air recover jab them, they should fall on their backs, unless they air recover manually, but does the knockdown property also cause the increased high reel arc of counterhits? If the Hurricane kick was a counterhit, would the knockdown and counterhit properties be stored? If so, then the only way to store a counterhit property outside a VC is to crouch cancel. Only the Knockdown property is stored during a neutral state.
Oh yeah in the JChen FAQ, ‘sweeps’ are classfied seperately to ‘knockdowns’ they have no juggle opportunities. The only way to combo from there is VC OTG command throw.
Yeah, like I said if you already caused knockdown (with a special for example) any normal anti-air after they had flipped will do it too. So I guess once knockdown state is initiated, ANY hit after they flip until they land, no matter what, will be a knockdown as well??
Seems right to me.
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I don’t think neutral state applies to this… Even if you crouch cancel you don’t store the countehit juggle stuff.
If you catch someone air-to-air with Karin j.RH for example… You can usualy crouch-cancel another j.RH, then s.RH at least. The first hit is counterhit - big bounce, but the rest don’t juggle as high. But during VC she can do lots of j.RH so it’s different.
In normal play, counterhit “float” is gone after the first counter- HIT. Then you get lower, faster normal bounce thereafter. No crazy repeated j.RH.
But if you are in VC mode, all your hits will give you that floaty counterhit “bounce” if the opponent is in knockdown state (or had flipped out of knockdown state). Even after your VC is finished… Which is why extended VC juggles and infinites work.
I think you still have to apply to the normal rules to cause knockdown state during VC though.
The only other thing that I can think of that stores the counterhit float is throws, (but I’m not so sure). Guy is perfect example though…
Normally you can’t combo after his bushin leap+grab. It just won’t work. However, if you anti-air counterhit d.MP, bushin leap+grab you can combo after it. The throw stores the counterhit “bounce” and they float higher after the throw than they normally would.
BTW: I remember watching a BAS vid where he did honda VC, AA s.RH (2-hit), whiff heabutt, (shadow hit), j.HP xN or something like that? I’ve toyed with honda and that seemed like a pretty cool combo. Maybe i’ll take a look at the vid and try to figure it out? You’ve made me curious…
Ah yes now I remember, a VC will cause the counterhit property to become stored even after it ends, but does this still apply as long as the opponent is in the air, or does it only apply as long as a neutral state is not reached?
Anyways the timing for the VC st. RK with Honda is pretty tight, you have to make sure you activate so you get blow through from the jump-in and make sure the 2-hits connect.
