This is a discussion forum designed for people to discuss opinions. As far as I know, discussion about things tend to help the community by inspiring motivation and change.
Isn’t that why we’re even discussing all of this?
Whining and bitching about issues is the first step. Then comes support for change. Then comes change.
Who is this statement directed to? Me?
I don’t sit around bitching endlessly. I DO have enough time to throw a tounrey, and already stated that I would throw one if I had a good A3 port. When did I say I wouldn’t go to a console tourney (I’m going to one in Sept.)?
I’d love an alternative, just give me one. I can’t just magically make a viable alternative on my own that everyone agrees with… Not in my power to do.
You must be confusing me with some one else. I spend my time on SRK talking about A3 strategy and combos, and just recently I released an A3 combo/trick vid, the rest of the time I loiter in image mishmash and general discussion. I’m not here to bash SRK or Capcom. Not like you care, I’m just saying you got me all wrong.
In fact, this is the first “why isn’t A3 at Evo” thread I’ve participated in.
[Edit]: Suppose this thread dies because YOU said it isn’t accomplishing anything. I suppose that’s going to accomplish a whole lot, too?
Assuming that A3 isn’t re-released, if the A3 Community doesn’t decide on either the DC or PSX version to become the new standard, it’s dead. And quite frankly, it will not receive any sympathy from me. Seriously, you guys have 2 ports that albeit are not completely perfect, but are very playable and are in fact quite accurate. Heck, even the guy from Germany just said that they’ve been playing A3 on DCs. Yet, this community is too stubborn to pick something over nothing. Well guess what? If nothing is what you consistently choose, then nothing is what you will always end up with.
Modded Xbox & viable don’t go together. You would think that that would be a viable option on a place like SRK. Hardly. While it is true that SRK does feature individuals who can wire a stick to an Intellivision, it also does feature guys who don’t know how to play import games on DCs & PSXs. You don’t know how many times I was asked the following question during evo: “Hey, how is it that you are able to play AE on your PS2?”
If playing imports is a tall order as it is, I don’t want to even imagine the kind of headaches modding would bring.
With all that being said, I ask the “scene” again, “something, or nothing?”
The Arcade board no longer made and never had much of a distribution in the first place. And therefore rare.
The Saturn version, while probably the most accurate home port, is hard to come by. As well as the Sega Saturn itself. I have no knowledge on what differences this version had though.
The PSX version has frame loss, priority, and VC activation invincibility differences at the least.
The DC version has priority differences, juggle differences, etc, basically I think of it as SFA3 Upper Beta.
An Emulated version would be viable to play, but its deemed as illegal to use in a tournament. Although if someone owned the Arcade board as well, could you not get past this easily?
All of this comes together to add another problem to the SFA3 scene, I swear it must be cursed.
Actually you have the discussion wrong, you came in defending someone without reading the whole post, if you had, you would understand where these points are coming from, namely:
Welcome to hell.
This forum can’t accomplish a lot on its own. The people who actually want to go accomplish things go do something about the discussion that is here.
Sure the community saved 3s (and ST to some degree), but i think they were able to because they were on DC. Kind of ironic that hating on console is what killed arcade A3.
Its just an unfortunate situtation, I don’t see what the resolution is, or how any of the proposed solutions would help the situation. The whining and bitching are going to people who have no power to change the real cause of the problem. In fact it’s actaully building a backlash against A3 in the community that just adds another obstacle to it’s success.
I don’t nessecarily want to stop people from bitching at all, but people sometimes take a lot of liberty with thier bitching, and draw some conclusions that don’t make sense.
Not easily, we use a lot of explanations to justify emulation amongst ourselves, but in reality if a company wants to pay a lawyer to stop you from doing it, your not in a great position to argue with them.
I just quoted a part of his post that I agreed with. I wasn’t defending him or his whole post. I’m pretty sure Apoc is capable of doing that for himself.
I don’t “take sides” in discussions like these. All I was saying was I found part of Apoc’s post to be quite valid and agreed with it.
Namely, this part:
So, from that statement (which I agree with), how did you come to the conclusion that I also agreed with every part of his post?
Like I said before: "Oh, excuse me. I must have skipped over the part where some one said “It’s the Cannon’s/SRK’s fault”. "… Which admittedly, I did skip.
It’s not the console, it’s Capcom who made a shitty port. It’s the shitty port itself. I find it hard to believe that the console itself is what killed A3.
It is an unfortunate situation, indeed.
And you expect us to be somehow different? We don’t see the resolution either. That gets people upset. Of corse that leads to bitching.
A situation we’re not able to fix… It’s only natural to be upset about it. People need to vent, you know.
I mean, you’re sitting here telling us to get off our asses, take action, and fix things. HOW? You yourself don’t have the answer, and neither do we.
It’s hard to get up out of my seat and change things, when I don’t know how to change things. I’m at least trying to find the answer by talking about it, though.
people that say that the dc psx ports are 95% 98% accurate obviously dont know anything about the game, thus shouldnt comment on something they know little about.
the argument comes full circle over, “its the fault of __ __ ___” to which is given
the counter:"oh if u quit whining and do something like organize your own tourneys it would blah blah blah"
yeah the scene was spoonfed because mwc, one whole fuckin tourney had a3. there is no disrespect for wilson here or for the idea of it but saying that its spoon feeding when its fockin 2004 and it s one major not a regional or a monthly, wow yes ur right how could all the a3 players not show up in full force to the midwest for one tourney and totallly restart the scene off nothing, years after the scene lost its pulse…i hope ur joking. the mere fact a3 was there is a godsend.
not putting effort into tourneys is an unfair statement i put up cash out of my pocket at ts4 this year for top a3 finish and talked about it on the boards to generate people , yeah we had about 20 people, what the regular (sadly) turn out for a major with a3 in it is at best. things are too far gone to just "oh hold more tourneys on your own"
no one is bitchin what this regards is just a detailed explanation into why there wasnt a3 evo. and people tryn to say contrary. .
PS playing dc version means one thing, ur not playing a3 ur playing a dc game with the same name thats it.just drop this.
It’s not even about whether or not the game is exactly accurate. It’s more about is it (the console versions) comprable (for the most part) to the arcade. The old skool scene (CE-SSF2, maybe even ST) is fairly small as well. If for whatever reason at the next Evo “The Powers That Be” decided to run the game on 3D0, I would still be happy. Heck, some old skool is better than no old skool. I think the A3 scene is lacking perspective on this matter. You speak as if you guys don’t even have any choices. The truth is you do->granted, those choices may not be to your liking completely, but they are choices nonetheless. But since this debate will obviously never end, I say, if the scene wont even CONSIDER taking the path Lomo alluded to, well…they have quite a dilemma on their hands.
It is not comparable.
It’s like shadowcharlie says…people want to play Street Fighter Alpha 3, not that game on the PSX/DC which is aesthetically similar.
First off, Capcom could give two shits about the entire scene, they could care less whether we’re using emulators or not on a 7 year old game that they practically forgot they made.
2nd, if someone had a board with them, EVEN if someone tried to get you for emulating it, they would hardly have legal ground to stand on. You are granted a license to use the game when you buy it(aka the board). If you make a backup of that game to your PC, as long as you aren’t using both at the same time(both emulated and actual board) it is legal. Now they might be able to get you on the fact that if you downloaded it instead of ripping it that you are in actuality operating off of someone elses board(the og rip) but that’s even IF you downloaded it. Now, to actually get in legal trouble for this if you have a board with you is practically statistically insignificant, and has so many nested “what if” scenarios it should probably be disregarded.
Now, as I see it there are four options for the majority of the US for A3 tournaments: Console Versions(not bloody likely), Supergun(this COULD work if someone had the equipment) PC Emulation(The Video solution is not easy to solve, short of Component it’s hard to get a decent picture to a TV, and monitors are relatively impractical, a digital projector would work but I don’t know many who personally own one, my dad does though) or Xbox emulation(assuming the emu works full speed and there are no other related issues, this is probably the most practical but is also quite likely illegal from the MS side, all emulation and pretty much anything aside from Linux hacked the MS SDK, hence all useful Modded Xbox operation is illegal. And Unlike Capcom, MS likes to find people to make martyr’s for emulation, it’s still unlikely legal action would follow, but of any solution this is by far the most dangerous)
I’d say even with the dangers Xbox is probably the most viable, then for something like evo we could probably switch to PC emulation or Superguns.
Modding an xbox messes up the xbox live connection, I’m told, which no one wants to do with the fighting games coming out now. Nobody has sticks to play on a saturn, even if they are crazy like me and actually own one. Emulated A3 is nice, but its usually illegal, and big tourneys with sponsors can’t use it.
So, the tourney options are:
Use PSX/DC version and let people complain/quit
convince people to invest in Superguns for an old game (unrealistic, really)
So, if you want A3 to have a national scene, its time to decide. Console, or nothin?
edit: I suppose you could petition Capcom to release an arcade perfect port for xbox with live support, but that would take time.
Modding an Xbrick DOES NOT mess up a live connection, and hasn’t for like the last year. Almost every current chip has a switch to turn it on/off, as long as you are never stupid enough to try to access Live while your chip is on, you’re fine.
I think apoc is right… if evo had A3 in the lineup people would play it.
At T5 we put in A3 and 20 people joined. 3S and MvC2 had about 30 people, and CVS2 something like 40-50.
My opinion is that in a major tournament, most people join any game they can play. And we can all agree that most CVS2 and 3S players know how to play A3 to a certain extent.
I firmly believe if they suddenly introduce A3 in the lineup at evo there will be 100+ players… and I’m being modest. There’s no question there will be more players than VF4 and Tekken.
I have data to support this from the T5 tournament, and I guess you can say that tournament was us backing up some of our whining.
As far as I’m concerned the only issue is the console port.
Well then, I suggest someone gets on the ball with this, and starts a drive to get people to do this, as everything else would appear to be a trainwreck waiting to happen.
If people can agree to arcade/xbox mod/pc emu/supergun for tournaments, then there needs to start being a push to get A3 going again, and not just complaining that Evo killed it. Its not gonna come back to Evo is people aren’t playing.
edit: For example, somewhere with an Alpha 3 specific forum, a national ranking system via kalliera or whatever, an organized tournament calender with A3 events, etc. I’m not really a hardcore A3 player, so i dunno how much of this is working.
In what lineup? the lineup is console, what A3 is going to be announced?
I’m assuming your answer is supergun, but the whole point of the supergun was the special case that 3s was coming out for PS2 (hense why it was almost switched to PS2 at the last minute), AND people had insider knowledge that it would be close to the arcade. If they had not known this, I would assume it would have just been on DC as well. I don’t think that exception would be made for A3, as it would create a situation where superguns were needed indefinately for a single game with little chance to grow outside of people playing ‘just because it’s there’.
A lot of 3D fighting players play on pads, why can’t people play on Saturn pads?
I guess I don’t see anything constructive happening here. There are options, the options include choosing a console version, rounding up people who own arcade boards, etc. Just complaining isn’t an option.
Edit: If A3 was at Evo some people would play. Then again the same would be true of Evo had an official MK2 tourney, an XvSF tourney, etc. The question is is it worth the hassle, the organizational headaches, the resources, etc.