SF3 Tier"What if"Question

Classic Fighting Games Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike
21

Not really, man, especially Genei Jin. Genei Jin can be activated after knockdowns/the target chain and then there’s basically no way to escape a combo. Yun can just do his standard pressure string garbage. If you try to super or EX shoryu or something, you will get beat out (Yun lands a combo and gets meter back). If you try to jump, Yun lands a combo and gets meter back. If you just block, Yun lands the grab and does a combo that gets him meter back.

It sounds simple, but that’s basically what Yun players do, even at high levels of play. Guaranteed damage from Genei Jin has gotten so bad that Yun players realized they can just activate it on the opposite end of the screen and STILL land good damage + meter back.

Chun-Li’s pokes combined with SA2, her stats which are generally good, and her super long range kara throw, just make her unfair in every matchup except the mirror match and against Yun. Also, at higher levels of play, once the Chun player can consistently do SGGK, she becomes even more stupid, as if she needed another advantage.

22

3s i don’t think would be to terribly hard to balance every character between like Akuma/Dudley/Yang’s spot on the tierlist. And more of counter matchups like SFII yet not nearly as hard to win as some of those.

Universal change reduce whiff bar building to 80% or so of what it is. I can’t take Yun’s runaway from him or make Chun’s wall of dumbness to much less dumb, but at least make it so they don’t get as much reward for just whiffing fairly safe stuff.

Yun’s Genei-jin shouldn’t be banned just not so damn spammable. If he catches you with an ender you’re fairly fucked as like 8 seconds later or so you have to deal with the same potential half your life fuckfest again. Unfortunately Yun is fairly garby without genei-jin so i couldn’t imagine taking it from him. Just make it so he gains no meter from enders, that and the universal whiff reduction of meter would probably be enough. Edit: on second thought he’d probably need to gain some meter back from this, but not much. Make it about 25% of what he currently gets back.

Chun is hard to balance as her flavor is to be fairly pokish with few combos and the one’s she has not be anything to dmging without meter. Yet she has always had a good super in her houyoku sen :sweat:. Make Chun slow and she isn’t any good, remove to much of her dmg she becomes bad. So i’d just try to make it so that she can’t ever go oh two supers your dead like she can now, and maybe remove some of the retardedness in her cr. MK. So make Houyoku Sen 2 bars but make it only deal a bit less dmg. Cr. MK > SAII > sj. FP > FP should deal like 40% rather than 45%. Increase the recovery on cr. MK so it’s a bit easier to punish it when it whiffs. bFP is annoying, but it’s pretty easy to work around it if your both in a fairly nuetral situation where as cr. MK is difficult for most characters to do shit about. That dmg is pretty big as that’s an extra FP, throw, or cr MK + another moves worth of life you’d have after eating 2 supers and with a less spammable cr. MK it would weaken her ability to control the space in front of her so easily. idea is to create some balance not make the good characters bad and give some others some spot light.

Ken’s downfall is also hard to balance without making him to bad as Ken is the only character that is really good without any real BS imo. Double Shoryuken is good, but not BS good like Houyoku Sen or Genei-Jin. So i’d probably make Ken’s SAIII have a Makoto SAII bar and have it go from dealing like 20% to like 25-30% ish but would need some working with. Less usable and not that much more reward probably isn’t enough so he’d need some tweaking.

Makoto’s problem is her Stun. I’d increase the Fukiage’s start-up to make it a more legitimate move as an anti-cross up or aerial tool however, i’d increase the recovery on hit by enough that the traditional 100% stun that works on Ken and others wouldn’t work, however, still leave it sj. cancelable for combo’s. Honestly I wouldn’t change to much more on her as it would make her a fairly bad character if much more was changed.

Akuma I’d leave as is other than give him a stun bar that is like a pixel out of Makoto’s 95% stun combo of course do the same for remy.
Edit: Remy might need this, but Akuma might need this gimp’d stunbar. As a good Akuma is still imo one of the scariest characters even with all the efforts to gimp him.

Dudley probably would need a slight nerf, but not sure what it could be.

Yang leave as is.

Give Ryu a link to an EX uppercut (but nothing else) after his chain or something to make it more viable. This might be to much as he is very balanced overall, but to be even i think he’d need a very small something.

Urien is broke yet bad otherwise and the combination makes him a solid character overall yet difficult to play. So I’d probably leave him as is.

Most of the other characters would need buffs to reach this similar level, but i’m tired and as this is theory it doesn’t matter.

23

since this thread hasn’t gone to hell like the other tier thread, I’ll go ahead and post a brief “Pretend Game Designer” tier rebalance

Chun-Li: No change
Yun: No change
Ken: No change

Makoto: shorter SA1 bar, blocking during SA3
Dudely: more chains combo into c.MK, quick and invicible Short Swing Blow, but big frame disadvantage on block
Akuma: takes standard shoto damage
Yang: takes average damage and stun, lil longer on SA3

Urien: three stock Aegis, 25%ish more damage on juggles, frame advantage on knee drop block
Ryu: recovers fast from fireballs and all take multi parries
Ibuki: takes average damage and stun, more chains into launchers
Oro: a chain into close s.MP launcher w/scaling, juggling off of drill punch, average damage take
Necro: three stock SA3, faster recovery on long range moves (but still unsafe due to parry), drills have more ambiguous cross up, meatier c. LP, one frame slam dance w/higher damage, two stock SA2 without mashing

Elena: takes standard damage and doesn’t deal crap damage, but otherwise IDK much about her because nobody plays her
Remy: takes standard damage, insanely quick recovery on fireballs
Q: good SRK type wakeup move, even tougher defense, safer punches and dash punches, more throw immuned moves
Alex: a safe chain into sweep, a good super instead of Stun Gun, 1 frame startup and more damage on command throws
Hugo: more priority on everything in general, like Chun-Li priority
Twelve: More ambigious IAD crossups, more combos in general and taking lots of damage
Sean: good SRK move, two stock SA3, faster movement and recovery on canceled tackle, faster roll, faster and safe on block axe kick, safe on hit and comboable tornado kicks

24

ROTFL

Quit trolling

25

Shut up just…shut up. I stopped reading when you said Akuma should take standard shoto damage.

26

Good for you, I predict you would have a stroke if you read what he wrote for Urien.

27

After you said this, I got tempted and read what he wrote for Urien…Cant believe this dude said 3 stock aegis.

28

eh, I didn’t think it was too bad of idea to leave the top tiers as is and try to make everyone roughly as good, most hypothetical rebalances just try to shake the tiers around like a snow globe and you basically just got a different game rather than a rebalance of 3S

don’t be so serious about it, I love 3S as is

29

Even if you give people all these enhancements guess whats, going to happen? Someones going to be on top and people will whore them, someones going to be on the bottom and people will try to pretend they dont exist.

Nothing really changes but the characters that are whored and the characters who are not used as much.

30

Yeah I know that, but it’s better when there are more characters being abused and whored. The way I put it, Chun-Li, Ken, and Yun have a good chance of still being great characters, as well as the previous high-tiers, and some low/mid being abusable as well. 3S has about ten characters that people that show up at the top often, and that’s pretty damn good, what I was going for was being able to increase that by a few more people without fucking up the characters who already are good.

but w/e, I still play SF games to death no matter whats in them and I don’t pretend to be an expert, I just made that list for fun,

I understand why that pisses you off that I made a pretend tier list because it sounds like a scrub saying he knows whats what and what should be done with Street Fighter. Trust me when I say I feel you, like how all these people are whining about SF4 preview stuff when nobody has even played the finished game yet. I PLAY the games and it’s not often when I dabble in this theory fighter shit.

31

Y ou know from the experts I’ve talked to and from the vids of watched to my own experience, Yun and Chun wouldn’t be nearly as strong without there SA’s. Sure in the case of Chun she still has her pokes and kara throw but outside her SA2 she can’t output a huge amount of damage plus she has no real combos. The only real reason Chun dominates the game is due to her insane SA2, without a fear of SA2 what else does chun really have.

The same applies to Yun, without SA3 he isn’t even as powerful as Yang. Therefore if for some reason these supers were banned I predict the new tier list looking something like this:

Ken
Makoto
Yang
Akuma
Urien
Ryu
Chun
Ibuki
Yun

Now I just finished reading Person-Man’s post and it doesn’t sound to bad. The game is balanced enough that most low tiers can compete with mid tiers, its just those annoying Yuns and chuns that ruin anything. Although if I were to buff a character I would like to see Akuma get amped. Perhaps to the effect of taking normal shoto damage/faster mobility/EX moves which I think would round him out nicly.

32

That’s an uh duh … if you’ve ever played or played against either of those characters you’d know there supers define the both of them. Make there supers slightly less abusable and maybe weaken Chun’s cr. MK is all that would be needed to make them equivalent to the high and upper-mid tiers.

33

If Yun’s SA3 were to cancel once he gets hit via CC style in CVS2/Alpha games thats all you would really need, or if chun’s SA2 did slighlty more damage then seans SA1.

34

aka make them less abusable.

35

Yeah exactly lol, but assuming that were the case where do you think they would fall into with the rest of the cast. That was my original question when creating this thread, assuming they were either removed or nerfed how good would Yun and Chun really be without there SA’s.

36

Chun would be easy keep in the high and upper mid. Yun, however, is harder but I don’t think that difficult. Really Genei-Jin’s dmg and the fact it doesn’t require setup to use, I don’t find to be the problem as much as he can do it every 8-10 seconds even if he NEVER interacts with you except when he’s genei-jin’d. The dmg and the fact it requires no setup are only a problem BECAUSE he can literally fight an entire fight Genei-Jin’d with only like a divekick or two being the exception especially if he managed to start a round with full bar.

I already voiced what I thought would fix those two on the last page. Ken is harder to balance imo as he isn’t broken he just simply is good everywhere.

37

they would be midtier this thread is stupid once again, how about you man up and learn how to beat yun/chun

38

It’s a theory fighter thread dude, if you don’t like it don’t post in it. I already fight pleanty of Chun’s and Yun’s and personally I don’t have much a of issue, i was simply asking how many folks would feel about this game if Chun and Yuns SA were nerfed or removed. Obivously some peeps overcome the BS, just look at SBO last year as an example. RX had a high level chun and yun beat only to lose to freaking Makoto.

39

the things you guys seem to not realize is that this has already happened via yun, americans didn’t know how good genei jin was till 2k2,2k3 they were rocking sa2 yun and guess what he was midtier

40

man, forget it, I realized I don’t want to partake in this thread. -.-