Serious lack of Ken in this issue… and that’s a good thing. Not that I don’t like Ken, but I’d much rather see characters disappear for like 2-3 issues than have 1-2 pages of each character each issue, moving the plot forward at a Dragon Ball Z-like pace.
At last count, there are something like 56 - 58 playable characters in the Street Fighter universe, plus all the non-playables like Gouken, Kei, the other 10 Dolls, etc. Despite the fact that 16 aren’t supposed to even show up yet (though 2 have: Yun & Yang) throwing all characters in the series would make it one huge clusterfuck. Besides, there have been like 2 or 3 massive group shots, go find those.
Re: Shinkiro. You guessed it. Shinkiro was the SNK artist until 2000. The last game he illustrated for SNK was King of Fighters 2000. Also, the first game he illustrated for Capcom was Capcom vs. SNK 1.
Ryu probably has a better natural ability than Ken, considering he’s most likely the more powerful of the two when it comes to ki levels and manipulation. Ryu and Ken are comparable, but Ryu has always been considered better than Ken. We’ll never know who is the better “pure fighter” anyway because Ken will never fully dedicate himself and Ryu would never compromise his training for us to find out the answer to that question.
By SF3 Ryu mentions that he still has a better win record than Ken. If Ken really was just naturally better than Ryu the record would be even as Ken’s natural ability would balance out the fact that Ryu trains harder. This is however not the case. Ryu still wins more often than Ken, implying that it is Ryu’s training and his ability that give him an edge over Ken.
I got issue 2 today, last copy at my comic shop. Cover B, I dug Scott’s artwork in the book a lot actually. I draw cartoony crap and it was really nice to see the SF characters in some what of a traditional American cartoony style. If possible I’d definately like to see him come back for some more back stories.
The issue overall was good, my only real problem was I haven’t read issue 1 yet. All my comics stores sold out immediately and have said they have issue 1 on back order but have no idea when they are going to get anymore in.
On the Shinkiro front, it’s nice having interviews with Capcom dudes but honestly I don’t even like Shinkiro’s art that much. Don’t get me wrong, he’s very very talented but it ain’t my cup of tea.
As for Rival Schools, I like Rey’s personal stuff but I’m not too big a fan of the Rival Schools pages. But I’ll certainly check it out whenever the first issue hits, make final decision then.
Overall good work Udon, looking forward to issue 3 and obtaining issue 1, ha. And whenever Darkstalkers makes it’s triumphant return.
I’m all for keeping it simple and not throwing random characters in just for the sake of doing it. In fact, in the thread for SFII#1 I said random characters should only be introduced if its through one of the main characters story arcs. Ken, however, is hardly a “throw in” character. So you can’t look at him not showing up as you would the other 50 plus and attribute that to there just being so many characters. Some characters are essential, he’s one of them.
Now that being said, I agree with you. I think this might have been the first issue with no Ken or Guile, and we’re concentrating on strictly Ryu and Chun’s arc. Since you only have half an issue to work with, it’s a good idea to keep it simple. I prefer a slow pace myself as well.
Well which is it? You can’t have it both ways. Either Ryu has more natural ability and Ken trains more, or Ken has more natural ability and Ryu trains more. That’s the only way it can be explained. Nobody said Ken is better than Ryu (though the argument can be made), I just said they’re fairly equal in talent. And for Ken not to train HALF as much as Ryu, and still be right there with him, must mean he has more natural talent.
Ken has the potential to be better than Ryu, but since it’s not in his nature to take his training/fighting as seriously - he’s basically a family man now, whereas Ryu has devoted his life to “the fight” - he’ll always be a step or two behind him.
My bad, I actually had issue 1 but it was so long since then I totally forgot about it. Still no foil for issue 1, but issue 2 manages to get released.
I REALLY wanna get the #1 RAW but $15 plus postage to uk is WAY too much. I thought #0 price was bad enough (I still bought it though).
No, it really doesn’t have to be one way or the other. If Ryu trained more and Ken had better natural ability then they would be equal. Ryu’s stricter training regiment would compensate for Ken’s greater talent and make them roughly equal. But this is not the case as Ryu clearly has beaten Ken more often by the last Street Fighter game.
You couldn’t ever make the argument the other way around “Ken trains more, and Ryu has more natural talent” simply because Ken has never trained as diligently as Ryu.
One could say that Ryu trains more than Ken and has better natural talent as well. We know Ryu trains harder than Ken. Ken’s natural ability is also not enough to put him on a level with Ryu as Ryu beats him more often than not.
What you say: Ken talent vs. Ryu training = they are equal as fighters.
Only problem is that it’s not quite accurate. Ryu is better than Ken. They are close, but by Third Strike Ryu is still considered the better fighter. Also the whole training vs. natural talent thing kind of boils down to the fact that in the SNK games natural talent means you are better, whereas in the Street Fighter games training is what builds up power and is more important than natural talent. Ryu is also tiered above Ken in the plot guide. I doubt just a little more training than Ken put him a whole level higher.
Ken might have the potential to beat Ryu, but I really doubt he has the potential to be better. Ryu is the one with the potential to be rediculously powerful. He can tap into the Satsui no Hado, he was picked by Oro as the only fighter worthy of his style, his rival is Gouki, etc.
What are you talking about, they are roughly equal. Ryu is arguably better than Ken, but not by much. And seeing that Ken doesn’t train half as much as Ryu, has a family to take care of etc., yet still is right there with him - he is more natuarally talented.
It’s a simple argument pal. Sorry, you lose this one. Hell, Ken BEAT Ryu.
Ken’s ending in Street Fighter Alpha 2 IS a canon ending for the Alpha series. Ryu BEATS Ken, and gives him his headband. That is how Ryu got the headband, from his loss to Ken.
Ryu won SF1, Ken beat him in Alpha, Ryu MAY have won SFII, and Alex won SFIII.
So at best, it’s Ryu 2, Ken 1. Which goes back to my point, Ryu may be better, but not by much.
Ken beat Ryu in Alpha 2 because Ryu’s head wasn’t in the fight. It’s not like he just flat out whooped him with superior skills or “natural talent.” Ryu simply wasn’t focused. And Ken wasn’t even in the first Street Fighter tournament.
I highly doubt that those two would ONLY get together to fight during the tournaments. When Ryu says he has the better win record, I’d imagine he’s talking about many “off screen” matches they’ve had in the past.
Street Fighter tornaments only represent a brief flash of the characters lives, just as the US martial arts tournament doesn’t take place during the games and yet it still happened. Ryu and Ken probably sparred in matches with each other every freaking day for 10 years.
Ryu is not arguably better than Ken. There is no argument. Ryu is better than Ken. Ken may not train as much as Ryu, but considering he trains with Mel, Sean, and has his own personal workouts he’s still getting a lot of hours in. Ken is not “right there with Ryu.” Ken is close, but he is not equal. Ken may be close when he is fighting Ryu, but if you measured them against the opponents they’ve fought Ryu is a level above Ken.
I hardly think I’m wrong. Especially considering the fact that you have no proof to back up the claim that Ken is more naturally gifted than Ryu. You asking for it to be addressed in a comic makes no sense when it’s never been said before.
And as mentioned above Ryu was very distracted when Ken beat him during Alpha 2. If Ryu had fought Ken for real during Alpha 2 he probably would have freaked out, turned into Evil Ryu and killed Ken.
And the cannon story for Third Strike (last Street Fighter game) has Ryu defeating Ken.
Ryu won SF1 against Sagat, someone that would have killed Ken back then and probably still today. Ken didn’t even bother attending the first SF tournament. He went back to the US.
In the Alpha’s Ryu was clearly far more powerful than Ken. He confronted Gouki, and impressed him enough to have Gouki consider him a great future rival, and then was sought out by Bison. No one really cared much about Ken in the Alphas.
In SF2 Ryu was obviously better than Ken as his bio clearly indicates he has let his skills deteriorate. Ryu and Sagat are the only people capable of really taking out Bison in this tournament. Although Guile or Chun Li probably did it, even though it makes no sense.
In SF3 Ryu proves himself to be the only person worthy of learning Oro’s style, beats Sean, beats Hugo, beats Ken (and flat out says he’s better than Ken), and finally fights Alex, the man who won the tournament, and beats the crap out of him, without ever being touched.
And you say I’m wrong?
Ryu and Ken grew up together, learned martial arts from the same dojo, and are lifelong friends and rivals. I would dare to say they’ve fought each other more than 3 times. More like 300 times.
You still haven’t adressed why Ken isn’t as good as Ryu. If he had better natural ability he would be able to close the gap and be just as good as Ryu. He’s not, so obviously he isn’t a better natural fighter. At BEST Ken’s natural ability is EQUAL to Ryu’s and Ryu is better because he trains more, which is what makes him have the better record.
Although I doubt even this is true because Ryu’s sheer power and massive potential seem to dwarf what Ken can do.
Saiki said that Ryu was actually kinda depressed/lonely in SF3 because he saw that Ken had fallen so far behind. I believe Vasili10 translated some canon sources stating as such as well, but I don’t remember at the moment.
It’s simplier than all of this. Ryu is 100% Japanese, Ken isn’t. With Japan’s intense pride, who do you think Capcom of Japan is going to give the edge? That’s why Terry is not the main character of KOF, Kyo is. That works across the board. Superman is not Mexican ya know (yeah, I know he’s from Krypton, but raised in America, looks 100% Caucasian) nor will DC create a Mexican character that will kick his Ass on the regular…
You said Ken is close, but he is not equal. No shit, thats what I said. I said they are roughly equal, not equal. And yes, the argument can be made that Ken is better. How can you say it cant be made? Dont you know anything about arguments, politics, law? An argument can be made on any point, abortion vs. pro-life, gay marriage an argument can be made. How good of an argument that can be made varies on the subject and the facts, but in this instance, a good argument can be made for Ken.
Do you realize how much shit is in that comic that has never been said before? It is a comic book, not a video game. They have an obligation to say stuff that has never been said before simply because the video games are not RPGs, they are fighting games, they have little real in game story, so the writers of the comic must compensate for that and take liberties with the property if they are to put out an entertaining comic month after month. (or ever two or three months or whatever the case may be)
And Ryu was distracted? So fucking what, everybody has an excuse when they lose. No one loses completely legit in their mind. When Matt Leinert and USC lost to Texas in the Rose Bowl, Leinert said he still thought USC had the better team. Ryu being distracted is not Kens fault, when you go into the fight, be ready to fight. If you are not, and you lose, guess what? They dont take that loss away because you werent mentally prepared. Tough shit, Ken was mentally prepared.
I didnt say Ryu didnt beat Ken in third strike, I said Ryu didnt win Third Strike. Ryu lost to Alex. There is no cannon that says Ryu and Ken even fought in Third Strike. Hell, Ryu and Ken werent even supposed to be in the game.
Listen to you. Sagat probably would have done this and Ken probably would have done that. I aint telling you shit that probably, could have, might have happened, Im telling you what HAPPENED.
You said in the Alphas Ryu was clearly far more powerful than Ken. Guess what, in the Alphas, Ken beat Ryu. Remember how I just told you that in my last post? Yet somehow you came back with this comment only to further dig yourself in a whole?
Ryu beating Alex is not canon, because Alex won the tournament. If Ryu beat Alex, Alex could not have won. Even IF Ryu beats Ken, it still doesnt take away my point. Im giving Ryu the assumption that he is better than Ken, so him beating Ken doesnt do shit to my argument. Im saying Ken is right there with him. And by SFIII, Ken is raising a son with his wife. I hardly think the fight is the most important thing on his mind.
Yeah, Ryu and Ken probably fought more than 3 times. But whos to say who probably won. My balls probably could be yearning for the kind of hard man-loving found in Brokeback Mountain, or Jessica Simpson probably sucks a mean cock, but unless we know for sure, then your assumption of what probably would have happened is no more credible than mine.
I talk about the 3 tournaments because that is fact. I know this whole theory of using facts messing up your make believe-based argument, but thats just how I roll.
Ryu lost to Oro during the SF3 tournament, not Alex. Capcom stated that on their website for a while, even.
And Third Strike, where Ryu beat Alex, was not the tournament. Double Impact was (where Ryu never got to fight Alex because Alex won the entire tournament yet Oro was the one who beat Ryu, so one can make the logical assumption that Ryu was eliminated first. Of course, in TS, they act as if they’ve never fought before, as well).
When using facts, it’s good to make sure they’re straight, first.
How can you argue that Ken is better when Ryu beats him more? Doesn’t make much sense to me. Ryu wins more than Ken and also fights tougher opponents than Ken. You can make an argument that Ken is better, but it’s a bad argument that goes against many established facts of Street Fighter canon.
Udoneko has stated that he wants the comic to be as close to the original SF story as possible. If this is true then your bit about Ken being better wouldn’t make it in, since it’s not true in the real story.
Ryu was being consumed by the Killing Intent and had just gone 10 rounds with the murderer of his Sensei, only to find out that he will one day become like Gouki. That’s a little much to have on your plate. No one could fight with a level head in that situation. Ryu never made any excuses. Ken knew something was wrong. None of this changes the fact that Ryu has a better record against Ken.
There was no Third Strike Tournament. Ryu didn’t win the SF3 Tournament. He was defeated by Oro. Alex beat Gill. After the tournament (Third Strike) Ryu beat Ken and then beat Alex no problem. It’s official. You have at least 2 other people posting on this thread that will confirm it. The fact that they weren’t supposed to be in the game is irrelevant. They were.
Riiiiiiiiight. Calm down.
Ryu lost to Ken in Alpha 2. So what. The fact that he lost once to Ken during Alpha 2 does not change the fact that Ryu was more powerful than Ken during that time period. He was too distracted when he fought Ken to utilize his full abilitites, as has been explained to you severla times. Ryu impressed the hell out of Gouki and Bison wanted him. Did Ken do that? No.
Ryu beating Alex is official. If you dont believe the other people on this thread that will confirm it, then go beat Third Strike with Alex. Ryu beats the crap out of him in his ending. Again, Ryu beat Alex after the tournament. Ryu never fought Alex during the actual tournament.
I’d prefer not to know what your testicles probably yearn for. This board is about SF, not movies about homosexual cowboys.
Ryu beat Ken in Third Strike. It’s official. When you fight Ken as Ryu, he clearly states to Ken, “I still have the better win record.”
Good for you.
I dont know how you are going to use the tournaments in your arguments because:
SF1: Ken did not attend. Ryu and Ken didn’t fight.
SF2: We dont know what happened here. Ryu and Ken may not have fought.
SF3: Ryu and Ken did not fight. They fight after the tournament.
So if you go by the almighty tournament facts you really can’t say anything about Ryu vs. Ken.
How can you make an argument that marijuana should be legalized? How can you make an argument that Boogie Nights is a better movie than Fight Club? You can make any argument, because there is never one side to an issue.
What are these many established facts of Street Fighter canon that says Ryu is SO much better than Ken that you talk about but never seem to state?
Since you seem to ignore common sense, let me post it again:
Do you realize how much shit is in that comic that has never been said before? It is a comic book, not a video game. They have an obligation to say stuff that has never been said before simply because the video games are not RPGs, they are fighting games, they have little real in game story, so the writers of the comic must compensate for that and take liberties with the property if they are to put out an entertaining comic month after month. (or ever two or three months or whatever the case may be)
Did you think I was gonna let you slide with your little spin to avoid that statement? Think again. You aint never argued with a motherfucker quite like me.
Oh look, heres another one of your spins to avoid my original statement. All youve done here is pull more excuses out of your ass. Listen to you, no one could fight with a level head in that situation. Lol, guess what, no one could throw fireballs and hurricane kick either. Make excuses as you wish, it doesnt change the fact that he LOST.
If youre gonna sit there and whine about Ryu losing like you are doing, then I could whine just the same about when Ken loses! Do you think when one team wins the super bowl this Sunday, theyre gonna sit back and say the other teams head wasnt in it, we want to forfeit the Super Bowl win to them.
No, it doesnt work that way buddy. If you dont show up to play and your heads not in the game and you lose. Guess what? YOU LOSE.
And what about this better record against Ken? Even IF, and thats a big IF, Ryu has a better record against Ken, it does not hurt my argument. Whereas, there is no IF in the fact that Ken beat Ryu in Alpha.
You dont even know what youre talking about. You said Ryu didnt win the SF3 tournament, and thats all you need to know. So in Third Strike Ryu beats Ken if you play as Ryu, then he beats Alex. Well, guess what? If I play as Ken, Ken beats Ryu and Alex too.
That shitty argument is based on who you play as, and since the one ending that is the Gospel is Alexs, the other stuff is just in there. You can play as Ryu and say look I beat Ken, well whoopty shit I can play as Ken and claim the same against Ryu. Alex is the one who matters there.
Is that the best you got? Trying to run away from my statements again I see. Its OK, Im sure by now youve realized youve bit off more than you can chew. So little riiiight responses like that should help you to save face while not actually posting anything of note, simply because you cant respond. A lesser poster would let you slide on that without pointing out your shortcomings. The Kid is not a lesser poster.
Here it is again for your reading pleasure:
Listen to you. Sagat probably would have done this and Ken probably would have done that. I aint telling you shit that probably, could have, might have happened, Im telling you what HAPPENED.
Ooh, now thats riiiiighhhtt.
The fact that Ryu lost doesnt change the fact that he was more powerful? History is written by the winners, not the whiners. Id like to see the player Sunday who says The fact that we lost the Super Bowl doesnt change the fact that we were the better team.
If you were the better team, you would have won.
So fucking what? Ryu beating Alex doesnt have anything to do with Ryu beating Ken. According to you, during Alpha Ryu impressed Gouki enough to have Gouki consider him a great future rival, and then was sought out by Bison.
So - if we are to just agree with your statements just for the sake of the argument - even with Ryu doing all that, he STILL couldnt beat Ken. Even IF, - just for the sake of your argument Ryu beat Street Fighters Ken lost to, it does not mean he can beat Ken. Just because A can beat B, and B can beat C, doesnt mean that A can beat C. Want proof? See SFA2.
Fighting is about match ups, some fighters match up better with other fighters. Ken was not a good match up for Ryu.
I may not be homosexual, but if a dude gets in an argument with me when I know I have a point, I will anally rape him.
Again, since you like to skip over points Ill say it again. Ryu having a better win record doesnt take away from my point Ken and Ryu are nearly equal in terms of skill. Personally, I give the edge to Ryu, as Ive said before. No matter how many times you try to spin it like Im trying to say Kens better. I see through all that.
Im Lion-O in this bitch, I have sight beyond sight.
And the Eye of Thundara has told me this is where you put the nail in your coffin:
So SF1 Ken and Ryu did not fight. SF2 we dont know what happened. And SF3 Ryu and Ken did not fight.
So the only IN GAME CANON we have of an actual fight that did take place is SFA2, where Ken WON. Ryu may have the better win record, but holy shit. The better head to head record?