Seth Help?

[lastguyplaying]

I am just starting with seth and i would like some tips about him. Here is a video of me playing.

[Pokey86]

What where you anticipating when you did a full screen EX Legs? i mean you could hardly catch a projectile… & Legs is horribly punishable.

• Try & get out of the SRK mashing during block/hit strings… Seths not the type of character you want to be whiffing SRK’s with, it’s certainly a necassary thing for Seth, but at moments when you know you’ll be able to FADC (For example, after kens EX Tatsu hits you) Bisons is synonimous with great pokes, so mashing SRK when you get hit by a standing roundhouse is just looking for trouble.

• Practice the basic hit confirms, if you whiff any verion of legs, it’s generally a full combo from alot of characters (Akuma gets stand Fierce -> Tatsu -> SRK/Sweep) so you really don’t want to be whiffing it, also when you land a focus try & go for a punish combo, start with HP & do SRK or legs, it may look simpler but if you want to win you’ll be trying to maximize damage.

• he liked to full screen Psycho you, after one or two i’d have been buffering an SPD on block (Best option would be buffer SRK most likely though) as he rarely jumped after it hit, it also tends to catch bisons alot when they do full screen Crushers.

• You was being dangerously reckles with Tanden at the end, a jump in wouldv’e pretty much been the end of you.

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For now i will day practice the LP’s to legs hit confirm, & be a bit more patient when you’re full screen. you did well punishing his jump in with ultra, but alot of your play was very reckless, Seths not the kind of character that lets you get away with mistakes (Unless you’re playing a dahlSim)

[Godot]

Also you can’t EX Tanden Engine someone in the corner. (Please correct me if I’m wrong)

[Staying_Free]

Hit string…what the heck is a hit string? Anyway, you can’t EX Tanden in the corner but only if they’re all the way in it - that combo would have worked if the Engine was done a little earlier (well, maybe…the way the screen is moving makes it kind of hard to tell if Bison is cornered or not.)

Well, for fighting Dictator (which I’m just going to call Bison from here since I’m lazy)…

• Don’t focus. Doesn’t matter if you don’t actually plan on hitting it or not, Bison blows these up. Seth’s FA is great but not here.

• You don’t want to play footsies with Bison because Bison is really damn good at it. But Bison is more or less going to force you to play it sometimes. fst.LK, fst.MK and cr.MK are probably your best options against Bison’s buttons. You want to Tanden Engine more in footsie range but you have to remain unpredictable with them unless you want to eat a jump in combo. And try to avoid doing max range Tanden Engine because it’s really unsafe if they block it.

• Pick Ultra 1. Shuts down more of Bison’s escape options for better damage and mix up opportunities. It’s also a better AA.

• Well, I don’t want to say “dive kick more” because that’s basically saying “jump more!” But Bison’s AA options aren’t that great…something to think about.

• Bison wants you to press buttons after you block LK Scissor kicks. Don’t. With the new push back on Scissor kicks, you only have to “force” yourself to block two of them now. I think, anyway. Most of the Bisons I run into don’t go for a third and try to catch me doing something with a slight walk forward into st.HK.

In general…

• If you can’t hit cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.MP xx MK Legs reliably, go for cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.LP, LK Legs. It’s way easier. Also, KKK teleport in often. Will keep Seth on top of his opponent. If they quick rise you can often land an LP SPD (although this is incredibly gimmicky, so don’t rely on it.)

• Seth’s FA is good but you don’t want to overuse it. It’s a really good poke though. Personally, I like FA2, backdash a lot. If their reactions are good, this will get blown up if you use it too much, but otherwise you can abuse it. If they get tagged you get a free Hyakuretsukyaku or you just backdash out into safety.

• Use cr.MK and fst.MK more. fst.HK is nice too but it’s kind of risky compared to those two. cr.MK buffered into Sonic Boom then FADCing in is probably Seth’s best option to get his game going.

• If you aren’t in range for them to punish it, dive kick a lot. This doesn’t work on people with good reactions but against opponents who have bad reactions or are rattled a bit tend to look at their AA options as a jump response instead of a jump reaction. Mind games them pretty hard.

• Learn some of Seth’s basic option selects, like OS DP and stuff off of your j.HK. Otherwise Seth has a much harder time putting fear into his opponents.

• Just DP for the fuck of it every now and then. Command grab twice in a row off of an empty jump sometimes too. Seth needs people to be scared.

• Tanden Engine. Get the spacing down for this because it’s pretty important for Seth to get his offense going against a lot of the cast.

• Shoto game plans. Don’t try them with Seth. Unfortunately it just doesn’t work.

Hope this helps in some way.

[DarkfallDC]

My biggest suggestion would probably be - Stop guessing and start playing. Random ex legs and shoryus will only get you so far.
Other than that - Tanden engine is a very good move. Use it after blockstrings and not just randomly.
As others have said, Seth’s FA is very very good. But you overuse it like nothing else. But when it does connect, go for a big combo. cr.LP - St.HP - Shoryuken, or my own personal favorite, Cr.HP-LP shoryu - Stomps.

[density]

Work on your BnB’s. c.LP c.LP c.LP isn’t the best punish when you could have done c.LK, c.LP, c.LP, c.MP xx Legs, for instance @ 20 seconds you could have won the round instead of having to wait a lil’ longer.

Also, you aren’t playing smart. Seth isn’t one of those characters where you can just do a ton of stuff and people will have a hard time dealing with you. You need to make some good reads and block every now and then.

[jalapNo]

I definitely would not use an EX Tanden in the corner in any respect unless it was the final hit of the entire match.

2bars is quite valuable when it comes to pressure, the scaling wouldn’t be worth the risk:reward factor outside of the winning combo.

[Kikuichimonji]

You don’t understand what footsies is. You are just guessing and doing random moves. You need to learn how to block. If he’s not in range to throw you, why would you hit a button near Bison? He doesn’t have an overhead or command grab.

Full screen shoryukens are RETARDED and if you had been playing me, you would have lost the round very quickly because I would have punished with j.hp -> cr.mp -> cr.mk xx hk scissors or raw ultra. And Seth can’t take damage like that. You’re not even doing the shoryukens at ranges where he’s likely to try to s.hk. You’re doing it from too far away.

If you want to anti-air ultra 2, you need to delay it otherwise you get only a few hits. I prefer just to hp srk. If I have bar, I’d rather hp srk fadc U2 than raw AA U2. You should be using U1 against Bison anyway. Anti-air U1 is great against Bison. It also punishes EX Psycho on block up close and punishes full screen devil’s reverse.

Your oki game is nonexistant. You knock him down, and then you do a jump in, and then you do some jabs and say “Boy I hope I hit him! Because I can do this really weak hit-confirm into legs, only I’m scared to do it so I’ll mess it up. Oh, and I don’t plink because I enjoy hitting my opponent and then losing the round when I mess up my combo.”

You need to learn mixups involving crossup j.hk and non-crossup divekick, j.hk and empty jump cr.lk, and SPD.

Never teleport unless you have a Sonic Boom to cover yourself or the opponent is knocked down.

Also you can’t EX Tanden Engine someone in the corner. (Please correct me if I’m wrong)

Yes you can, the only thing that doesn’t work is cr.hp xx EX tanden. You can link an EX tanden off cr.hp in the corner.

I definitely would not use an EX Tanden in the corner in any respect unless it was the final hit of the entire match.

2bars is quite valuable when it comes to pressure, the scaling wouldn’t be worth the risk:reward factor outside of the winning combo.

The damage is only scaled to 70% off the EX SRK. It’s totally worth turning a random hit into a full combo (on Bison cl.mp -> cl.hp xx hk legs -> stomps). You will gain about half a bar during the combo anyway, and if you hit them with the mixup afterwards you’re already almost to 2 bars again.

Now the random EX shoryukens he was doing were terrible, but following it up is definitely worth the bar. If you NEED srk fadc in order to mix up Bison, whose reversals aren’t even good, your offense sucks.

What where you anticipating when you did a full screen EX Legs? i mean you could hardly catch a projectile… & Legs is horribly punishable.

This. Raw legs is a terrible idea 95% of the time unless it’s guaranteed.

EX Legs has great range against hadoukens however so it can almost go full screen. Dash -> EX legs can catch full screen fireballs.

• Try & get out of the SRK mashing during block/hit strings… Seths not the type of character you want to be whiffing SRK’s with, it’s certainly a necassary thing for Seth, but at moments when you know you’ll be able to FADC (For example, after kens EX Tatsu hits you) Bisons is synonimous with great pokes, so mashing SRK when you get hit by a standing roundhouse is just looking for trouble.

Exactly. You weren’t even in the range to hit him if he tried to cr.lk or do another s.hk or whatever. He couldn’t even combo off the move you were mashing after. There’s little possible reward. You’re just uppercutting because you don’t want to work for your win or learn how to use Seth’s pokes and ground game.

also when you land a focus try & go for a punish combo, start with HP & do SRK or legs, it may look simpler but if you want to win you’ll be trying to maximize damage.

cr.hp combos are better unless you’re doing tanden -> cl.mp combos.

• he liked to full screen Psycho you, after one or two i’d have been buffering an SPD on block (Best option would be buffer SRK most likely though) as he rarely jumped after it hit, it also tends to catch bisons alot when they do full screen Crushers.

EX Psycho can be safe on block if he does it from far away - it can even be plus. Your best option is to punish it before you block it at this range. Do a hp uppercut on reaction.

LP psycho can be safe on block. MP and HP never are, I believe. Going off memory.

Seths not the kind of character that lets you get away with mistakes (Unless you’re playing a dahlSim)

You’ve never been hit by super -> ultra from Sim, have you?

• Don’t focus. Doesn’t matter if you don’t actually plan on hitting it or not, Bison blows these up. Seth’s FA is great but not here.

Seth’s focus is great against Dictator’s s.hk and s.mk. It’s just that you can’t do it if he has charge and EX.

• You don’t want to play footsies with Bison because Bison is really damn good at it. But Bison is more or less going to force you to play it sometimes. fst.LK, fst.MK and cr.MK are probably your best options against Bison’s buttons. You want to Tanden Engine more in footsie range but you have to remain unpredictable with them unless you want to eat a jump in combo. And try to avoid doing max range Tanden Engine because it’s really unsafe if they block it.

Max range tanden is -4 on block, it’s rather safe considering spacing. Usually you end up at 0 or better even at max range. It’s just that the spacing makes your recovery time weird. A worse problem with random tanden is that it can be jumped on reaction. And the j.hp from Dic will be CH too. You have to think of tanden as a counterpoke or a counter to walking up to you. Basically an invisible projectile.

Sonic Boom is a great poke against dictator at the right ranges - right outside his s.hk range. Farther away he can punish better with jump-ins. far s.hp can also be useful if he doesn’t have charge - I believe he can punish on hit at close range.

• Bison wants you to press buttons after you block LK Scissor kicks. Don’t. With the new push back on Scissor kicks, you only have to “force” yourself to block two of them now. I think, anyway. Most of the Bisons I run into don’t go for a third and try to catch me doing something with a slight walk forward into st.HK.

lp SPD, backdash, and teleport are all useful options after a blocked lk scissors. If you think he’s trying to bait something you can go for a crossup. Focus can be useful against s.hk after scissors. s.hk is mostly used to prevent jump-out and low jabbing.

• If you can’t hit cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.MP xx MK Legs reliably, go for cr.LK, cr.LP, cr.LP, LK Legs. It’s way easier. Also, KKK teleport in often. Will keep Seth on top of his opponent. If they quick rise you can often land an LP SPD (although this is incredibly gimmicky, so don’t rely on it.)

The cr.lp will whiff often where cr.mp won’t. Honestly, if someone wants to learn Seth, they need to learn the cr.mp link. In my opinion, no point in practicing an inferior combo when cr.mp is 2 frames already. Plinking helps too.

• Seth’s FA is good but you don’t want to overuse it. It’s a really good poke though. Personally, I like FA2, backdash a lot. If their reactions are good, this will get blown up if you use it too much, but otherwise you can abuse it. If they get tagged you get a free Hyakuretsukyaku or you just backdash out into safety.

You can also do jump in headstomp -> j.mp -> land -> stomp x2 -> divekick after the backdash but it’s character specific and timing intensive. You can also just do a divekick to reset.

Seth’s focus is amazing because often people will jump backwards to avoid it. Which can be punished if you baited it, with dash forwards U1.

• If you aren’t in range for them to punish it, dive kick a lot. This doesn’t work on people with good reactions but against opponents who have bad reactions or are rattled a bit tend to look at their AA options as a jump response instead of a jump reaction. Mind games them pretty hard.

• Learn some of Seth’s basic option selects, like OS DP and stuff off of your j.HK. Otherwise Seth has a much harder time putting fear into his opponents.

I wouldn’t suggest he try learning option selects yet, he has too much to work on.

• Just DP for the fuck of it every now and then. Command grab twice in a row off of an empty jump sometimes too. Seth needs people to be scared.

You forgot the part where you say you only DP if you have meter.

Shoto game plans. Don’t try them with Seth. Unfortunately it just doesn’t work.

I fireball trap the FUCK out of Zangief and Honda. You can play a shoto zoning game with Seth, especially if you understand when s.hp is good to throw out. It’s just that this gameplan is slow and requires a lot of work for little damage over time. If you knock someone down usually you need a mixup to drain their life because otherwise you’re going to fuck up your zoning once and get hit by a 70% life combo.

[Pokey86]

You’ve never been hit by super -> ultra from Sim, have you?

Of course i have… But i don’t know… When yuo play a very good sim, it’s very difficult to get in without random hitting some of his pokes. I don’t mean completely random, but semi-educated guesses.

But yeah, Sim with Super turns his, normally horrible, punish output in to a game ender.

[jalapNo]

Try playing Cole’s sim. He’s mastered Ultra2 now and it is pretty scary. -_-

The damage is only scaled to 70% off the EX SRK. It’s totally worth turning a random hit into a full combo (on Bison cl.mp -> cl.hp xx hk legs -> stomps). You will gain about half a bar during the combo anyway, and if you hit them with the mixup afterwards you’re already almost to 2 bars again.

Now the random EX shoryukens he was doing were terrible, but following it up is definitely worth the bar. If you NEED srk fadc in order to mix up Bison, whose reversals aren’t even good, your offense sucks.

Has the Ex Tanden become easier to hit in the corner? I recall depending on how close you were to the corner, it wouldn’t grab someone. I can understand you can build near 2 bars afterward, if you hit the mix-up. Good players don’t get mixed up as often, making the reserve of 2 bars being quite useful in respect of your opponents abilities. I would prefer to win all matches with 2-4 bars always, mainly because it’s similar to an ultra, it is a trump card and can either catch someone off guard or become a deterrent to keep people honest while playing you.

That’s just my philosophy on the matter, but I respect your information and knowledge of the situation being discussed.

[Kikuichimonji]

Try playing Cole’s sim. He’s mastered Ultra2 now and it is pretty scary. -_-

If you empty jump you can DP/teleport after the flash when you land.

Has the Ex Tanden become easier to hit in the corner? I recall depending on how close you were to the corner, it wouldn’t grab someone. I can understand you can build near 2 bars afterward, if you hit the mix-up.

This is only a problem with cr.hp xx EX tanden and it has to do with cancelling cr.hp moving you forwards. EX SRK -> EX tanden works fine in corner, if you mess it up you probably just did it late. The timing is strict.

After testing, the corner combo builds almost exactly half a bar. But does 428 damage/502 stun on Bison. If you somehow manage to land the seventh hit of EX SRK you get 444 damage and 510 stun.

Midscreen it ends up with a little under 400 damage and about 450 stun.

Good players don’t get mixed up as often, making the reserve of 2 bars being quite useful in respect of your opponents abilities. I would prefer to win all matches with 2-4 bars always, mainly because it’s similar to an ultra, it is a trump card and can either catch someone off guard or become a deterrent to keep people honest while playing you.

And that’s my point kind of. Yes the SRK FADC is extremely useful. But Seth still has a strong mixup without meter even if the opponent has meter because of his safe jumps, SPD, empty jump low, anti-reversal crossups, etcetera.

That’s just my philosophy on the matter, but I respect your information and knowledge of the situation being discussed.

Same. I’m not saying you’re retarded. It’s just that the damage Seth can get from one EX Tanden is hilarious nowadays. EX SRK -> EX tanden is essentially EX headbutt -> ultra from Rog.

[Red_Minotaur]

Just some bison specific stuff:

1. Don’t ever throw full screen booms against charged bison unless you’re FADCing to bait.
2. When you see bison flash and jump towards you, get ready to block. If it’s EX stomp and you hit a button and get counterhit, that’s more than a quarter of your life gone. If it’s devil reverse, buffer U1 if you have it, if not buffer SRK if he’s coming in for the hit or just stretch arm him if he lands far. If it’s full screen and you have space behind you, you can actually backdash and get free guaranteed punish.
3. You can easily tell how the match is going when you jump in at non charge bison. If he’s AAing you from the ground, he’s completely controlling the ground game such that he can perfectly position himself, so you need to work and beat him at footsies. If he’s air to air-ing you, you’ve at least got him distracted. If he can’t react in time, you’ve got him cornered.