Seth AE 2012 Rebalance Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

AE 2012 changes

Original blog post here.
Unity translation here.
Post-location test info here.

Buffs:
[LIST]
[]The damage from Seth’s cr.HP into Ultra 1 will now do full damage.
[]Angled jumping HP now has four active frames. Total move frame length has not been changed.
[]Neutral jump medium kick now has lower body projectile invincibility after hit detection.
[]Sometimes when hitting someone with Seth’s jumping Hard Kick, recoil would prevent Seth from comboing into Crouching Light or Medium Punch. This has been fixed.
[]U1’s invincibility now starts after opponent is hit, as opposed to after the wall is hit. Seth can still be hit out of it, but not as easily anymore
[/LIST]
Nerfs:
[LIST]
[]U1 does 340 damage now (down from 380 in AE, same as Super)
[*]Excluding the EX version, the second hit of a blocked Shoryuken has two less frames of blockstun. FADC’d DPs are now -3 on block.
[/LIST]
Overall: Nice buffs, U1 damage won’t really be missed that much, nerfed DP sucks.

Thanks to LostOnPenalties as well as GregaMan from Unity for the translations.

2

I don’t think he’ll receive any buffs. Personally, if he avoids this whole fucking scrub shitstorm and stays the same I’ll be happy.

Buuuuut if we’re looking at a wishlist, the only thing I really want is more hitstun on the divekick so it can be followed up more often, Vanilla divekick would be godsend.

3

just give me back my vanilla fucking dive kick and you can give him 500 health if you like

'cus bitches aint gonna hit my shit 'cus my shit wont stink

4

More stun on his moves. I think the stomps are just right now and the arms weren’t too big of a deal. I like Seth, I’d just like to see him deal a bit more stun. Especially as Yun has a stupid 1000 stun :confused:

5

Buff’s I’d like to see

The group below NEEDS to happen. There’s no reason for Seth not to have these.
[LIST]
[]Vanilla Divekick
[]Vanilla Forward Teleports
[]Vanilla Stomps
[]Ultras returned to SSF4 versions
[]EX Hyakuretsukyaku to be invincible through active frames
[]Modestly increased walk speed
[/LIST]
One of the 2 groups below should happen maybe a mix of both

Defensive Group
[LIST]
[]Vanilla Jump Fierce
[]Vanilla Back Teleports
[]Less Recovery on far Fierce
[]Less startup and recovery on all fireballs (I’m thinking -4 startup -3 recovery)
[]Cancellable far Short and Roundhouse
[]Modestly increased walk speed
[/LIST]
Offensive Group
[LIST]
[]Increased SPD range and damage
[]Vanilla stun on Hyakuretsukyaku
[]15 frame dash with shorter distance (to make focus dashing fireballs easier, make Lv 1 Focus attack approaches much better, and prevent SRK FADC from crossing Seth up at point blank.)
[]Crouching Strong to be +3 on block +6 on hit
[]Neutral Jump Forward to have full-body hitbox (like Honda’s Splash) and replace Angled Jump Forward (so Magneto Setup can hit all characters at least once.)
[]Less recovery on Tanden Engine (Seth should be able to SRK the opponents forward and neutral jumps after cancelling into tanden. The opponent should have to jump back or risk using a reversal. Seth should be able to combo from a max range Tanden with crouching forward.)
[/LIST]
General Buffs I think would be helpful to any playstyle. None of them needto happen, but I’d like to see a few in addition to either the Offensive or Defensive group.
[LIST]
[]3 frame Jabs and Shorts
[]5 Frame Crouching Forward
[]More useful sweep
[]Increased damage for 2nd and 3rd hits of normal SRKs
[]More range for close standing normals
[]Close Roundhouse ~ Close Fierce to work on all characters after Tanden Engine
[/LIST]
Miscellaneous changes to help Seth and remove irritating things
[LIST]
[]Adjust Crouching Jab hitbox so that it doesn’t whiff on Sakura after a jumpin while she’s crouching (this happens way too often when I play Sakura)
[]SPD to leave the opponent slightly closer (would make it possible for Seth to crossup all characters)**
**
[]Make it impossible to Negative Edge stomps
[]EX SRK should land all 7 hits on all characters
[]Make it possible to Divekick with any down (just like with stomps)
[/LIST]
Wishful Thinking (things that would probably never happen)
[LIST]
[]An overhead that can be comboed off of (every character in the game should have one IMO)
[]Tanden Engine to reset damage scaling to 80%
[]Crouching Roundhouse to be El Fuerte’s
[]Far roundhouse even on block
[]Improved hitboxes on Sonic Booms (It should be impossible to land between EX. Hitboxes needs to be size of projectile for all characters.)
[]Divekick hitbox to be extended back more (so that it is easier to crossup with)
[]Far Short +6 on hit
[/LIST]
**Expects **(Because Capcom loves to nerf Seth)
[LIST]
[]Decreased invincibility on SRK
[]Teleport to be removed
[]Wall Jump to be removed
[]Tanden Engine nerf
[/LIST]

6

Fix his stomps and a 2f spd. I hope capcom doesn’t nerf his srk though :confused:

cl.RH as an overhead!

7

Ultra 1 Property Should Be Back,Rite Now It Sucks
More Hit Stun On Divekick
Crouching Medium Kick Should Be Faster
Crouching Medium Into Boom Should Always Combo.
Less Recovery On Tanden Engine.
Akuma Like Teleports.

8
  • vanilla divekick
  • less recovery on far s.hp
  • no nerfes

OR

  • more range on ex spd, more range on lp spd, more damage and stun on hp spd.
  • make his lp tanden into s.mp, s.hp combo on everyone and always (so basically change s.mp properties to waaaaaaay less pushback)
  • less recovery on far s.hp
  • no nerfes
9

how incredibly gay would it be if capcom nerfs seth because of what one guy who plays this game 16 hours a day was able to do.

unless you are poongko, seth is still low tier.

10

Tbh I thought the stomps were a bit too much in Super, I think they are just fine in this one now. Give Seth a better teleport, make his ultra’s at least useable, they absolutely suck now (change back to Super versions) and give him more stun. His SPD’s having more range would be godlike too.

Knowing Capcom however they will listen to the little bitches that complain about Seth just because they haven’t learnt the matchup. Seth needs buffs, what is the point in nerfing Seth, like 40 people in the entire world can play Seth properly. He’s such an underused character.

11

Vanilla stomps(bigger hit boxes).

Having his Yoga Sniper(jump back fierce) back would be nice.

Let’s hope he doesn’t get a billion nerfs.

12

If there are nerfs (to seth or ibuki), I don’t think I’ll be playing 2012. I’m soooo tired of everyone getting the nerf bat in these games

13

no joke, his u1 sucks MAJOR ass. well besides some matchups (blanka, vega, bison…), whats the fuckin point to use it right now? way too slow, way to shitty to catch fbs…wtf man?

14

Wow Xl, you want Seth to be broken? :stuck_out_tongue:

15

I didn’t mean all of that at the same time (he’d still be far from broken though): those are just all the random buffs that I’ve thought of that would be helpful. I’ll bold the important ones for now and I might color code the list or break it into groups another time.

16

no, no it’s not. It has good damage and leads to a free mixup. Learn to use it correctly.

17

well, in fact i dont main seth since vanilla or super and my knowledge of seth is still limited but pre ae u1 led also to a free mixup as far as i remember AND it could punish fireballers everytime. thats why it sucks now IMO

18

I think his SPD range is pretty decent TBH (You can also Kara SPD I saw, which increases the range to quite a lot, I think 1.25 instead of 1.15), I dont see why everyone wants a buff to that (And his Stun is already insane imo @ the stun buff). I started playing Seth since 2 days ago though lol, but I havent complained about that. More damage would be nice though.

Lol @ CC though, wouldn’t be surprised if Seth got nerfed. I love how the easy to play chars are so good too

(Note : Scruby & salty opinion :D)

  • Ultra 1 as it previously was

  • More SPD damage or range

  • More HP (50 - 100 more, Akuma’s bad enough) (I swear lol. Im tired of fighting scrubs mashing shoryukens all day, I can punish all day if only Seth didn’t die after 2 shoryukens and a random hit lol. Tired of trying 20x as hard with all the chars I really like CC (Abel, Akuma, Seth, Super Makoto, /All mixup chars /Salt)

  • More Divekick stun

  • A little increase of walkspeed would be nice, just to bait/trick/Not be so stuck after a forward throw.

  • Some quicker normals / Shorts/jabs? Far Hp

  • Better Teleport

  • Better sonic boom

I dont know. 500+ HP plz tho

19

No nerfs please. Maybe a buff or two if Capcom is feeling generous. But he’ll probably be nerfed again. Already been three times now.

What I think about some things listed here:

Anyone who thought the head stomp nerf was justified needs to get a clue, sorry. Don’t want to be mean but it literally does nothing but make it harder for the Seth player. Everything still works, it’s just harder for no damn reason. Like the only thing that isn’t viable anymore is going air to air with it and that was more of a style thing.

LP SPD range is fine. The range on the other versions and damage overall could be better, though.

Vanilla Dive kick would be sweet, but I don’t see it happening.

Doesn’t need more health. What he does need is a few more buffs to compensate for the fact that Akuma has 50 more though and everything but a command grab. Stun should stay where it is (was a pretty significant buff.)

Damage in some situations should be a little higher, but otherwise, Seth’s damage should stay where it is. His stun dealing is already pretty good too, although maybe adjust it so he stuns in 2 punishes instead of 2.5 most of the time.

Seth would looove a 3f normal, but they’d probably have to adjust SPD start up if they did, which could end up being pretty bad. Knowing Capcom, they’d give it to something that doesn’t hit crouching opponents…

Sonic Boom could use an improvement if they don’t return jumping limbs.

Walk speed buff would be nice…can dream.

Ultra 1 needs to come back. There was no reason to take it away when you look at the other changes done.

Better teleport would be a god send. Might be a little too crazy for the scrubs, though.

Tanden is already really good. I hope they don’t make it worse.

fst.HP recovery is really shitty…I hope they buff that a little because I’ve lost matches off of half screen whiffed fst.HPs, that’s kind of annoying without jumping limbs. Would like limbs back too though.

I really have a love hate thing going on with how people who don’t play Seth, view Seth now. Like they literally understand that “hey, he has 7f inv SRK into SPD! Super good character.” Totally disregard footsies, walk speed, safe jump options, frame traps, how the character can get in, how the character can get out. I’m starting to think that most people with this edition, when discussing tiers or characters in general really, think about three things:

  1. How many gimmicks does he have?
  2. How many shenanigans does he have?
  3. Can he make you guess on wake up?

Top tier character my ass. Mid tier I can believe though.**

20

One interesting thing i’d like to see (assuming they keep ultra 1 the same) is if they bring back the fireball trap.