Dee Jay vortex? Am I missing something?
Also, you don’t need an untechable knockdown for a vortex technically, (see Cammy and Sakura.)
combo into untechable knockdown, ambiguous cross up short jump into another potential untechable knockdown, rinse wash repeat…
I don’t think ambiguous crossups count as a vortex or almost everyone has a vortex…
if it leads into untechable knockdowns, it might do. ask Akuma
Everyone has ambigous crossups, but if you have a Vortex, then you’re someone who either has far more ambigous crossup options than the rest of the cast, or has a handful of ambigous crossups but has many ways to get an untechable knockdown.
The point of a vortex is that after you score an untechable knockdown, your options far exceed the opponents, and your options lead into repeated untechable knockdowns. The opponent is forced into a guessing game that is ridiculously unfavourable for them, something that they cannot control the pace of. They have to guess right again, or they don’t get to quick roll. Characters like Cammy and Sakura aren’t that threatening after knockdown.
How this applies to Yun - Yun can’t combo into untechable knockdown. Unless he throws, the opponent can always quickroll, which takes away the main advantage of a vortex.
Yang can combo to sweep, which is his main untechable knockdown, but he doesn’t have too many ambiguous crossups. If his dive kicks would crossup better, he could be harassing the opponent night and day similar to Dee Jay.
I’m sorry. Are we playing the same game?
Cammy’s options after a knockdown are not so much better than her normal dive kick as frame trap options. She has scary pressure, but that’s very different from Akuma, who’s pressure is less scary than Ryu’s, but who easily combos into un-tech knockdowns, and has good, safe, actually ambiguous mixups on an un-tech knockdown.
Note that safe is important. Akuma’s & vanilla Gief’s mixup games were called vortexes in a large part because they were so safe against reversals, in a way many other so called “vortexes” (eg, most crossup divekicks) really aren’t.
^ this. The comparison we are making is Cammy versus people like Ibuki and Akuma - Akuma being basically the agreed standard for oki/anti-wakeup. Yes, she is still sick on offense, but Cammy lost a massive amount of her threat when they took away TKCS. On console, this statement does not apply, but Cammy’s oki got nerfed hard in AE.
With regards to Yang and Dee Jay - giving Yang’s divekicks better crossup potential would allow him so many more opportunities to combo into sweep on an opponent’s wakeup. Comboing into sweep off ambiguous normals is exactly what Dee Jay’s vortex is all about. You would be seeing Yang use his great j.mk and crossup dives to go jab -> sweep or strong -> jab -> sweep all day long, mixing it up with command grabs here and there to keep things interesting.
Anyway, this is the video thread. Time for some videos:
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Some Aussie Yang from Good Games in Sydney. Launch whiff launch roll kick is fucking sexy…
that dive kick to cl. mk isnt it… less damaging than SJC fierce?
if you’re just doing launch whiff launch, then it would, yeah. but if you’re doing launch whiff launch whiff roll kick, you’re getting beefy damage and putting yourself in a good oki position.
there’s nothing stopping you from going launch whiff launch whiff U1, either. it may even do more damage than launch whiff U1.
so what your saying launch whif launch doesnt damage scale?.. and its better than launch SJC fierce… reset game?
launch whiff launch by itself, is a 2 hit combo, so it doesn’t scale. the same is true of launch SJC j.fierce. J.fierce does more damage than the launch kick, so SJC fierce ender does more damage than just ending with a launcher.
(Launch whiff launch whiff roll kick) does more damage than the SJC fierce ender.
Ending in roll kick is not a reset. It knocks down. If you want to go for a reset, then you would obviously use an SJC Fierce/Roundhouse ender instead.
me playing yang. stay free me
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btw… do use mk roll kick or hk roll kick?
That first match with Genxa makes me wonder if yang can do Launch, Dive Kick whiff, Launcher, Roll Kick FADC U2. or do it after teh 2nd launcher.
You can get U2, just like a normal launch combo. Use MK roll to combo after the launchers XBlades.
use RH roll after the two launchers
@Wasted
Thx, i was having trouble… exploring the hieght restriction on divekick… since i have no experience with yang nor dive kick characters…, doing launch wiff (assuming you use lk to dive kick) launch it misses… sometimes… is it cuz im not doing mk divekick???..this is hard since i do not know how to do it yet lol… you can see me using yang on the stream part 2… around 25 minutes… when oni akuma and evil ryu came out…
Launch whiff launch usually misses because:
A. The divekick is done too late
B. You miss the dive kick entirely and get a jump kick, or
C. You aren’t close enough after you land to hit again
A and B are just timing issues. For C, I actually like to jump forward instead of vertically. It’s pretty strict to launch twice in a row - the second cl.mk will look like it hits very late on some characters.