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http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=8059605#post8059605
I didn’t realize there was a limit on how much could be in one post, so I had to break it up into several.
Feel free to close this thread / delete it whenever a mod gets the chance.
sick post +rep
lk tatsu >overhead
edit: i think the ex hado is
1.JP=1
2.JP=2
if u do air tatsu u can land 2 hits of ex hado
and if u do lp.dp u can only land one… or something like that
Air tatsu = Float knockdown
First hit of EX Hadou = Standard Knockdown <-- Alters the player state so doesn’t add to the counter
Second hit of EX Hadou = 1 JP <-- is the actual part that juggles.
Light Punch DP = Standard Knockdown
First hit of EX Hadou = 1 JP <-- The part that juggles
Second hit of EX Hadou = 1 JP <-- This hit whiffs since 1 isn’t greater than 1
This post blows my mind.
This shit is mind blowing.
Well, I’m free for the next several hours, suppose I’ll just start adding characters to the list. Up next will be Crimson Viper followed by Rufus. I’ll work on getting every character in there (though I recently reformatted and have to unlock Seth again, who is also a juggling monster).
I’ll also work on rearranging the layout of the last section to make it easier to navigate when more characters are added (alphabetical, spoiler sections to keep space minimal).
my head is about to explode, great post tho:rofl: .Will rep you as soon as I can
Wow, what a great and informative post. If I may ask though, how were you able to figure all of this out? Lots of time and some crazy tools or what? Oh and also…
^ This.
Another person researching heavily the juggle propperties of SFIV… Sadly it wasn’t as simple as i originally thought.
Though i’ve researched generally the same things you have, i gave them different names so you’re terminology is messing with me a bit (For example LK Tatsu i gave a JP (Juggle PRoperty or Point) as 0, meaning the character is in a juggle-able state, but can be hit with anything of any value)
Akumas EX Tatsu, if we go by Ryu would have a juggle propperty of 5, it is however very difficult (even with Ryu) to get all 5 hits to hit.
[media=youtube]PjNAsNY9eyM[/media]
The problem with Akumas is it has some peculiar propperties such as a kind of Suction. Which may effect it’s aerial propperties. (It could simply have different points)
Though you’ve explained this to a tee, almost exactly how i’ve ended my refinement of the mechanic (With a bit of help)
Sadly… because alot of attacks have varied characteristics on Counter hit (Sagat T-Upper, Chun Li LK Normal little flip kick. FA LVL 1 & of course Ken SRK) or hitting characters while in the air. It makes it exceptionally difficult to thoroughly test moves. IT is certain some moves have counter reset propperties (Dahlsim Super for example)
If i really want to simplify it for a quick explenation it simply say
“for every extra juggle you do take away one hit of the following move”
In terms of Akuma i’ll add “Shaku however, will hit one extra time”
That’s really the simplest can do it, disregarding all moves with special propperties.I say this because, for the most part it is generally correct.
To make things harder to test though. Try this
Abel -> Cr.HP
1st hit on a grounded opponent = conventional stun. On aerial opponent = Reset(No juggle potential)
2n’d hit on ground opponent = Juggle potential 0 (in my terminology it means any hit will hit, the best state for juggle) hitting on an aerial opponent = Same.
Now, if you hit a character with the 2n’d hit -> Roll then hit a character with the second hit again. What state are they in?
… Juggle potential 1.
Now it does surprise me that the Capcom team forsaw this mild exploit & resolved it before it could be abused. My point is going by conventional rationalization of how we’re percieving the juggle mechanics. They still have the ability to manipulate there own system for the sake of balance or exploit purposes. We know they’d allow the EX SRK -> FADC -> EX SRK -> FADC -> EX SRK -> FADC, because they know that on a rea game, it’d never be done & can’t be exploited. At most you’d get 2 HP SRK’s where the second hit is the only hit that hits on the second SRK (Causing Juggle Potential 0 again)
But with Abels Cr.HP you can basically do the move again & again in the corner. (You can roll, but this is the easier alternative)
Here’s something i don’t understand… Do this combo with Abel. (Has to be mid screen)
Cr. HP (Hits high, only secondhit hits)
HK Roll
Ultra (Doing it backwards, the roll crosses up)
= Ultra hits
Now do this
Cr.HP (Last hit)
LK Roll or FADC
Cr.HP (Last hit)
FADC BACK
Ultra
= Ultra hits = Ultra has minimum potential of 1
But do this
Cr.HP (Last hit)
LK Roll or FADC
Cr.HP (Last hit)
HK Roll (Cross up like the first combo)
Ultra
= I have never been able to achieve a hitting Ultra with this
On a side note, Abels Sky Fall (Air throw) has a 0 JP (Must hit a freefalling opp) EX has a JP of 1. Do EX SKy Fall at the end of the final combo, it looks great 
Hope that made sense
I figured most of mine out originally by simply fucking about in Training, at first i simply thought it intertwined with the amount of hits in a moves (& that normlas were void of any juggle potential) but then i did a Counter hit SRK with Ken & shit got interesting.
As far i’m aware KEns 2 infinite juggle hits is one hit of his EX SRK (Last hit) & the first hit of his Aerial EX Tatsu.
Ialso have a relatively large list of Moves with 0 Juggle potential, in my terminology that basically means the same juggle propperty as Akumas LK Tatsu. Should the OP or anyone here want them, i wouldn’t say it’s a complete list though, that’s awork in progress.
Once you get a basic understanding of how it works, it’s a mix of trial and error and setting up controls/variables, much like any other experiment. None of this is done by feel, there are ways to isolate single hits of a move. A lot of it is deliberately putting the JP to a certain number and trying a move out and seeing what hits. I’ll give you an entire example of how to flush out single hits of a 3 hit move–Akuma’s FP SRK. It goes into detail about how I personally went about finding each value.
For instance, Lp.SRK = Standard Knockdown, JC = 0. If you FADC’d and followed up with a Fp.SRK, the last 2 hits connect.
Now that situation doesn’t tell you anything specific about the latter two hits, what it tells you right off the bat though is that the first hit of his FP.SRK has a JP of 0. It requires lots of setups in which you single out a specific hit of a move, rather than the entire move.
To find the JP of the second hit of FP.SRK, you need to know the JP of his EX Hadouken–this is able to be discovered via LP.SRK again. LP.SRK is great for finding JP values since it’s a single hit that puts them in standard knockdown.
You find out the value of EX Hadou by first LP.SRK > FADC > EX Hadou, one hit connects, which means that it has to have a JP of 1 on both hits. Alternatively, it’s possible that the first hit has 0 JP and the second hit has 1 JP, but it’s simpler to just look at it as if each hit has 1 JP since it’s unlikely that Capcom made the individual hits different.
Next, set the dummy to jump and EX Hadouken them on the way down. The first hit puts them in Standard Knockdown and the second hit juggles them once, so the JC = 1. If you FADC it and FP.SRK, only the third hit connects. Again, this tells you very little about the third hit other than it has a JP > 1. What it does tell you is that the JP of the second hit now has to be 1.
The second hit of FP.SRK connects after a LP.SRK when the JC = 0, but does not connect when the JC = 1, therefore it has a JP = 1.
The third hit can easily be tested by EX.SRK > FADC 3rd hit > FP.SRK. At the very least, the JC is = 2. First hit of EX SRK knocks down, second hit sets the JC to 1, third hit sets the JC to 2. When you FP.SRK, the entire thing whiffs. Since you know the JP of the third hit of FP.SRK is greater than 1, and it whiffs when the JC = 2, then you’ve now discovered that the JP of the third hit is equal to 2.
Thus, FP SRK’s JP’s for it’s hits are 0, 1, and 2.
^ Basically a lot of that.
Pokey–the difference between Float State and Standard Knockdown JP 0, is that you can put someone in a position where the counter is 0 and not be able to hit them with a normal (unless, much like Sagat’s F.RH, it has a JP to it)
Float state is a state in which there is no juggle counter (as odd as that sounds). Because Float States only last a single hit, then they are put into another state, unless the attack you’re using can put them back into float state via a reset.
The rolling Abel situation wouldn’t change–that’s not a juggling issue, that’s a spacing issue and timing issue. You didn’t hit them with anything different than you did before, so the ultra can theoretically connect, but if it’s not going to catch them, it’s not going to catch them.
i think FP shaku is 4 JP u can do LP.DP
3hit shaku fadc 1 hit of fierce shaku