SBO/EVO QUALIFIERS / Midwest Championships (Northbrook, IL) June 20-22, 2008

Tournaments & Events
521

If you honestly can’t remember if you have been to a summer tournament that has ALWAYS been held in June for 12 straight years, and you haven’t been to more than 2-3 tourneys at this arcade, I don’t know what else to say.

Also, I’m not belittling you. You came into this thread along with others trying to muscle in about what the tournaments “should” run like in the beginning. I don’t go into anyone else’s thread telling them what they “need” or “should” have for players to use at the tourney.

About “who” is running the tournament. Well, that would be myself, Sabre, JuicyG, or a combination of us. Just like it has been EVERY year at this SAME time for awhile.

Again, I don’t know the rules, I have to wait until SRK decides the rules on how they are doing the tournament. Why is this? Well, we’re giving two qualifying spots for EVO Vegas for each of the EVO games. I’ll update the first page thread with that info.

Top 2 for EACH of these qualify for FINAL bracket at EVO VEGAS

Super Smash Bros Brawl
Tekken Dark Resurrection
Super Street Fighter II Turbo
Marvel Vs Capcom 2
Capcom Vs SNK 2
Street Fighter III: Third Strike

522

So NOW we are doing EVO qualifying spots…:confused:

U know what, I have nothing else to post about any fucking thing that has to do with this fucking tournament…unless someone mentions my name or makes reference to me.

I’m editing this part because I don’t want people to feel threatened…

So all I have to say, is that I will address conversation about this tournament in person. And no longer post about it on here.

523

[quote=“digimonemporer, post:522, topic:36821”]

So NOW we are doing EVO qualifying spots…:confused:

EVO spots were always planned. Just not announced until now.

524

Geez, didn’t think I’d start a shitstorm with something like that. But I guess people just get touchy when people dont agree with them. Well, whatever, I’ve had a lot more fun playing brawl with the ruleset that makes matches actually go quickly instead of being on par with CvS2 in match length.

525

With all due respect to everyone, Smash is not going to make or break this tournament and the rules are there and same for everyone. If someone doesn’t like a rule, either adjust to it, or don’t show. MWC will be a success for the 13th(i think) straight year and one person whining and complaining about something is not going to change that. Seriously let’s grow up!

526

:rolleyes:

527

lol now you pissed cuz we announced qualifying spots? wtf is wrong with you? that just makes me lol. waht makes me lol more is how you blow shit entirely out of proportion and act like its dream’s fault. we have to use the rules that evo uses for smash, which is undecided. and your rants are invalid when it comes to other games, we play all our games on default settings, and run with it.

everyone knows all the items causes random. you are stating the obvious. but every game has its randomness. if brawl was designed for competitive play with items all off, id think it would be defaulted to all off, and have 873658736587635 bland stages. but no, they designed the game with items in mind. if you cant accept that, then i guess smash isnt truly a tourney game, and we got to strip the game down to its barebone to make it playable. sounds like a bad competitive game honestly (i do like smash tho)

528

Thats how i felt about melee, sabre. Its a bad competitive game that somehow found an audience when they stripped 70 percent of the game away.

Tests prove that random game elements do not yeild a random winner. And L O fucking L at “top wi” players that think offense is the only skill worth testing, and super lol at them for not being able to realize how absurdly easy it is to evade pokemon in brawl. More dragoons missed at DBQ than hit. People where handing final smash evasion very well too.

This game has way more to offer, so please stop babying and allow one group to play it to its fullest.

529

U know…this IS going to turn into that thread I started on Tekken Zaibatsu because some of yous can’t read…or won’t.

I NEVER SAID IT WAS DREAMS FAULT towards anything. I address what he commented towards me. Now…if u find a post that clearly states, “Man Dream you son of a bitch, it’s your fault that this Brawl tournament will be torn to shyt for whatever reason…!!!”, I won’t even come to this tournament (as much as I’d like to participate).

I wasn’t mad about the qualifying spots…LMAO. Even I lol at the thought of that.

But what does pisses me off is that some of you people really believe that having items on in Brawl is fair game. And still not ONE PERSON has posted on: WHY HAVING NO ITEMS IS A BAD THING? Maybe because there IS NOTING WRONG WITH THAT and THAT is fair game.

So again I supose we are going to have to wait until these SRK Brawl folks come up with these wacky rules (considering who is helping make them). Dream implies them into this tournament.
And then we all just move on…

How does that sound?

Every fighting game (unless their time of competition has passed) is taken competitively. Brawl is NO EXCEPTION…I don’t give a damn what anyone says.

Keits:

What u said is in bold!!!

Thats how i felt about melee, sabre. Its a bad competitive game that somehow found an audience when they stripped 70 percent of the game away.

Because that 70% was retarded stages and all the freaking items that didn’t provided balanced gameplay.

Tests prove that random game elements do not yeild a random winner.

And exactly what “test” did u guys use hmmmm?

I lost to a noob in this game because he ran away and picked up every item he could find (including unlocking landmaster). I was bowser and he was Fox. Then we played 1v1 NO ITEMS and I 3 stocked him…big difference. Even a fucking noob can realize this…but I did refuse to grab an item in our item match. Because I refuse to use them.

players that think offense is the only skill worth testing, and super lol at them for not being able to realize how absurdly easy it is to evade pokemon in brawl. More dragoons missed at DBQ than hit. People where handing final smash evasion very well too.

  • No one with common sense would believe that offense is the only key of winning at fighting games. I’d like to see u play vs our top player in the state. Where he has defense on lock and his character dares u to attack him.

  • Sometime u just can’t avoid a pokemon…there are guaranteed combos in this game…even with pokeballs setups. LOL at whoever believed that u only get 30% off a fan. I can zero to death u with a fan with DK , are u serious…LMAO!!!

  • I like the dragon item to be honest…LOL!!!

  • Back to guaranteed combos…Marth can zero to death u as soon as he get’s his smashball…that’s so balanced…NOT!

  • Congrats to those that can avoid FS’s but again…I’d really like to see someone avoid Bowser’s, Marth’s, Kirby’s, Ganon, Link’s, Toon Links, and Ike’s (and I’m probably forgetting someone’s who has to his them directly to activate) FSs in the right hands.

And finally:

This game has way more to offer, so please stop babying and allow one group to play it to its fullest.

You do that BS in casual play. This is a tournament where money is involved my friend. So that way of playing effects everyone, not just a certain group.

That is why someone or something has got to give…

I know I said I would comment in here about this tournament…but it’s so ridiculous, I can’t help it so sue me…

530

Digimon wrote:

So again I supose we are going to have to wait until these SRK Brawl folks come up with these wacky rules (considering who is helping make them). Dream implies them into this tournament.
And then we all just move on…

I think you meant “implement” if I am not mistaken, but I have to use the exact rules that EVO decides to partake in since qualifying spots are at stake.

About your comments on losing to someone who ran away and threw items at you, ANY fighting game has some sort of BS in it you have to avoid. I might lose to someone who just uses RC Blanka electricity all day. Wow, some skill I am thinking, right? Wrong. Shame on me for fallling for that bs all day. Either I learn how to avoid it, use it against the person, or not play the game. Everyone knows what I think of Roll Cancelling, and I know in my mind you take that out of the game, I’ll beat the same person 3 characters to 0 probably, but it’s not out of the game.

Same goes for things like Super Moves. You can just pummel some guy all day, then you get hit in the face with a 50% Super Move, and you are done after all that hard work. Every game has stuff like this, and the items in SSBB are no different.

531

hmm lets see

that made it seem like you had a problem for some silly reason.

as for the shit with dream. maybe you didnt say that exactly. but you been constantly barraging this fucking forum, bitching and moaning about the tourney. you first come in here flailing your arms cuz some of the games are arcade. threatening not to come (not a big deal honestly) cuz of it, even tho your games are on console(that makes me lol)

and your point? we do 100% combos and infinites in marvel. makoto 100% combos in 3s. retarded unblockable setups with urien that can take your whole bar, guaranteed. we dealt with 100% combos and infinites in a3 when it was hot. as well as other games. so honestly, pretty invalid statement.

no one is saying really that items dont add randomness, thats silly. but what i and others are saying, is that we always dealt with our games on default, and never stripped our games to make them playable. but yet in this, you have to ban 38756387657835 things just to make it playable… something is seriously wrong with that. other players accept the flaws of their games, and either deal with it, or the game dies. yet smashers cant accept em in their game. i think thats pretty funny honestly.

you are talking shit about you wont let no one belittle you, yet you are the one with all the criticisms, threatening not to come (reality check, no one really cares), and being a total drame queen. you may not want to be belittled(even tho dream didnt), but i will tell you this, i wont let you badmouth this tournament any longer.

make your decision and come or dont, and be fucking done with it, thats all on you. you dont like it, you go hold a fucking major. but i will not let you constantly criticize every nook and cranny of this tournament any longer, especially when its not warranted.

you dont like items, great. smashers dont like items great. and for all you know, items may be all turned off in the end. then your rants would have been for absolutely nothing. its just funny that we take our games for what it is, glitches bullshit and all. yet its not the same in smash. and from what i seen in smash, i havent really seen totally random results yet with items on or off. seems like the same top players getting top spots…

but whatever

532

Look at this guy trying to tell big bad Webster off…about what u aren’t going to let someone do…LMAO!

NOW that IS funny!

Look I’m not a bad guy…but I just don’t kiss anyone’s ass and I don’t always follow the crowd per say.

I do admit I was wrong about complaining about what games are on console and what not.

That just like the debate for smash is all an opinion. And I am entitled that.

Now to address u directly my friend. I don’t 1.) give a damn that u are a mod. 2.) care if u personally don’t care if I come to this. And 3.) and most importantly am going to voice my opinion. Because I haven’t disrespected anyone…directly whatsoever.

So that’s all there is to it…in my book.

533

Webster - tests = the items on events we have been running.

And ive seen people minimize or avoid all of those final smashes regularly in tournament play. All of your babying just shows you have either not given it a real try, or have taken the word of top players who have not given it a try.

I play without crutches. So does most of SRK. let swf do what thet want, but WE SRK WE DA BEST.

Btw… i loved your made up story about getting beat by fox with items on. if it were true, all it would prove is that you have NO idea how to defend vs most items.

unavoidable pokemon combos lol too fucking funny.

Cant wait for MWC and dat MYSTERY GAME Tourney!!

534

LMAO okay pokemon combo was a typo…my bad. But I’m sure an advance player could set the pokeball up to edge guard and make sure u don’t get back on stage without hitting u directly (with character).

535

I felt the need to put my two cents in to this argument about items.

First thing I would like to address is the “items in other games” suggestion which is completely irrelevent. In powerstone and MK, the items are always in the same spot and readily available to everyone at all times. There’s no randomness involved. If there was a countdown in brawl and a “this item is next and is going to appear here” window, then perhaps it would be less of an issue. However, the fact that you could be ike, space a forward air so you couldn’t be grabbed or punished, but a bob-omb appears right as you do the attack blows you away and kills you… well that’s randomness that was unavoidable and showed no skill on the blocking opponents part.

As for the part where “tournament players haven’t given items a try” that’s also not true. The true unfortunate part is that tournament players, at least good ones, know how to use items better than any casual gamer, and those of you going off the assumption that we “just haven’t tried it” isn’t true.

That’s a melee example, however brawl’s examples would be just as lethal.

Also, to state that things such as pokeballs and smashballs are legit items, not even mention starfox bombs, starmen, or fans which as I saw someone say earlier, is not 30%, it’s a KO by just mashing A for a while and then throwing the fan at your opponent. It’s one thing to simply isolate that pokemon themselves are avoidable, however when you throw in the fact that you have a human opponent chasing you down who is completely unaffected by this new “stage hazard” you have a problem. There’s also the extreme random value that is what pokemon you get. Two pokeballs land right next to each other, they both throw it simultaneously at the opponent. One gets a goldeen, the other gets a legendary (I dunno which one it is, the one that keeps flying back and forth) which can combo you by itself. Sorry, you just lost because you got a shitty pokemon. You relied on luck and failed.

As for smash balls… Someone said “So what” to the fact marth has a one hit KO smash ball… and compared it to another fighting game in which 0-deaths or infinites are common practice. The problem with that comparison is two things. 1.) Those infinites take quite a bit of skill to not only start up, but to also continue until the death occurs, and they can be done at any time. 2.) No characters in brawl have infinites (minus a select few against a wall) and very few characters can KO someone below 100% So when you hear “one hit guaranteed KO” that’s pretty shocking. Not to mention you can combo into it with forward throw or side B.

There’s also the fact that some are absolute shit, and others are completely imbalanced. Landmaster is almost guaranteed 2 KOs because of how strong it is and how long it lasts, and marth, link, and toon link are all 1 hit KOs, while Ness and Lucas… well they may as well not even have a final smash.

Having SOME items with a setting to low can be acceptable since some items don’t affect the amount of skill that takes place. But to simply make assumptions of tournament players because they don’t use items in tournaments is not how you justify using items.

One last thing I want to address, and that’s the fact that “In order to make smash playable, 70% of it has to be removed, while every other game has been acceptable by default.” The problem with that is that games like street fighter have one type of stage, a 2-d final destination with 2 walls. The default settings of smash are meant to be party style, but they give the option to make it the way tournament players play. There is no “default settings are what the game was meant to play” the options are there to adjust it to however anyone wants, so I guess on some level it was meant to be played however the user wants to play it, not how the programmers made it to be played.

Granted, the tournament host can do whatever the hell he wants as far as rules, but I would highly recommend that if you do have items on, turn the ones that take away from skill the most (fan, starman, pokeball, definitely smash balls) and turn them off, and set the others to low. Otherwise someone who’s truly good will make you hate items a lot more :wink:

536

Good, I hope the best player uses all of his advantages to win a match against every other player, no matter how “cheap” or “dirty” it may be.

537

1.) That combo vid is incredible.
2.) That guy posted above me (Dray013) is our best in the state of WI.
3.) I agree with this:

Granted, the tournament host can do whatever the hell he wants as far as rules, but I would highly recommend that if you do have items on, turn the ones that take away from skill the most (fan, starman, pokeball, definitely smash balls) and set them to low. Otherwise someone who’s truly good will make you hate items a lot more :wink:

And that’s all I have to say!!!

538

The point wasn’t that items are “cheap” or “dirty” it’s that getting certain ones at certain times are “lucky” which defeats the purpose of a tournament which is to see who’s the best. Granted if all you do is throw a sword or fan when you get it, it’s not gonna matter much, but in the right hands, even a professional will fall to a properly used item. Doing actual combos or cheap tactics that are built in to your character, whether they’re a glitch or not, are not comparable to getting a fantastic item.

539

yeah great you have an opinion. but you barge in this fucking thread very negative, almost to the point of trying to make us look bad. state your opinion and move on. we give our reason, and thats it.

you may feel you havent disrespected no one, but you certainly have. it dont matter if its direct or not. disrespect is disrespect. first, you disrespected dreams decision of keep tradition and keeping mwc mostly arcade, and started ranting nonstop about it. even tho there are 9874586578 console tourneys a year. now you make a scene cuz theres a possibility that smash might have SOME items on, when its not even our decision. and further make a scene cuz we are not going to do 2 tourneys.

im just sick of al lthe negativity you keep bringing into this thread. its getting very old.

and why are we still arguing about smash items. we all know items add to randomness. but all the bitching will not do anything, its not our decision.

dray: a lot of infinites and 100% combos in games dont take too much effort. while i understand what you are saying. dont assume that all high damage situations in other fighting games are elite hard. cuz that is not true. i cant play mvc2 worhth a shit. but i can do 100% and infinites, no problem, off random luck. key word random. in the end, the better player still wins…

all im saying is, i dont think smash community has played the series long enough competitively with some items on or stages allowed to really see if it produces random results. i bet most of the good players will still inhabit top spot. but no one knows for sure, cuz no one really tries to.

in the end, it doesnt really matter to me. just giving my 2 cents.

540

I didn’t really mean to imply that, but they are a little bit more difficult than pressing the B button once and getting yourself a kill. Also, doing any infinite in MvC2 isn’t random luck. You just have to connect your move and then off goes the infinite. In a game like MvC2 the better player will win because the variable of luck is extensively small, while smash with items is high.

Smash melee was out long enough to show which levels should be banned and why. Those similar ideas were implemented in brawl’s decisions and are properly chosen as such. Some of the tournament banned stages are off not because of the effect of randomness, but because of completely broken strategies that makes some characters completely useless. Pokefloats, for example, made ice climbers completely useless since nana would often just die, so it was available as a counterpick stage and not a first pick random stage. In actuality, the tournament stages that are banned are there to make more characters tournament viable. This isn’t a problem in games like MvC2 because all the stages are the same.

As far as items, that was already shown a LOOOONG time ago. Items went from being on default, to items being set to low, to items being generally accepted as turned off. Really shitty fox players were winning on large and semi large stages where they could run away and shoot lasers until they got good items. With items off, this doesn’t provide as much of an issue because the fox player would need to get close eventually. With items on, he does not. Again this is only one example. if you’d like to know any explanations as to why certain things were banned/off in melee, and why some things are off or banned in brawl, feel free to ask and I’ll give thorough explanations.