I think “don’t jump” is a bit heavy handed to say, but everything else you said is a pretty fair assessment. There are benefits, and drawbacks like with any game, and this game is more like traditional fighting games than some of the other SamSho games, so the wisdom of “don’t jump in against a character with a dp” is pretty sound.
Jumping depends a lot on the character you’re playing and the matchup. For some characters who have really great jC moves, like Haoh and Yoshi, or a character like Yashu who has a lot of jumping Oki, NOT jumping in means you’re not using a really great part of their pressure game. If you’re using a character like Kyo or Ukyo who not only have floaty jumps, but better options on the ground, jumping makes little sense.
Being able to land a deep jC is a really big deal, especially if you follow it up with 5C, you’ll get a knockdown+deal 50% damage, but you can also use it to combo into some WFTs, possibly even issen, but I haven’t tested that yet. So that’s a big benefit to jumping in that can change the course of the game, but like you said, it’s a gamble, and is one of those things you have to test your opponent out at. If they’re playing a character with no or bad AA options, that’s basically an invitation to jump in on them, especially if they don’t know how to handle it.
I started really playing this game in earnest in the last week and also watching tourney footage, and one thing I’ve noticed a lot of players NOT doing is Recoil Cancelling, which covers your ass if your opponent blocks your attacks and keeps you from basically giving away damage.
I made this video about 5 Special, but this principle applies to every SamSho game and is an easy way to improve your game!
It’s interesting that recoil canceling is one of those concepts you don’t see much in 2D fighters because you’re used to your pokes / buttons being safe, if not straight-up plus. Meanwhile in 3D fighters, where characters tend to have a lot of strings, you can use said strings to apply a lot of similar mindgames because most moves in 3D games tend to be negative on block, but actually trying to take advantage of that frame advantage might get you counter-hit by a followup.
I’ve noticed the local players that picked up this game fast are guys that either were fairly good at 3D games already, or were playing rekka-characters in other games. Being used to that stuff seems like a pretty solid advantage.
The recoil thing is a function of them using weapons, fists and feet don’t bounce when blocked really, but that and whiff cancelling are two things I don’t think I’ve ever seen in any other fighting game.
As a consequence, most people who play this probably don’t even know they exist.
I thought i heard the PC version was coming with the switch version. Maybe they mean for the nesica version to be ported and used on PC? That version has a lot of bugs right now so if that’s the case, and I’m only speculating that it is, then it needs a lot of work.
the pc version was originally announced with the switch version releasing 4th quarter of 2019. then google’s stadia thing got rights to samsho as an exclusive? not sure what exactly happened but now pc version extra delayed.
For those waiting on a PC release, KrispyKaiser, who’s an SNK community manager, said something on Twitter that an announcement regarding that release is coming. I don’t feel like digging up the tweet, but I saw it.
I’ve finally had more time to get my hands on the game and have been maining Basara. I’m starting to get the hang of the rhythm of the game and I’m improving bit by bit, but after thinking about it a bit, SamSho games are all so different from each other beyond the first two, that even if you’ve played previous ones, it may not necessarily help you as much as you’d think.
This game doesn’t seem to be as popular as it could be, while there are a lot of reasons for this I think the game could perhaps get more interest if it made some changes in season 2.
My suggestions for changes in season 2.
1:) Rollback and pc port: I think these are probably the most important things for most fighting games and it’s ridiculous how snk doesn’t seem to acknowledge how significant they are.
2:) Throw and deflect button change: This is a smaller one but imo throws should just be done by pressing a+b together and deflect should be done with 236 c+d. I can appreciate trying to make things unique but sometimes it’s ok to just be more conventional.
3:) A regular jump and a high jump: In order to have some more variety with the movement I think the game should have 2 different jumps that accomplish different things. The regular jump is a low arc jump that is ideal to establish pressure and punish whiffed moves. It also should allow you to combo into a jump-in at any height of the jump. The high jump has a higher jump arc (basically what most characters already have) and is full screen as far as distance goes, this makes it ideal to get around zoning. It requires a deep hit to combo into though, so while it can get around zoning its not something to use to pressure and combo off from. These 2 jumps would give the game variety and they both have different things to offer.
4:) Hard knockdowns: Sweeps,slides,weapon flips,command grabs,issen and super special moves all cause a hard knockdown state where the opponent can’t roll recovery from. This is to give the game more variety by making meaties and mix ups more prominent.
5:) Rage will be canceled if the opponent lands a hit: Issen can be a bit much sometimes, I think a way to possibly balance it is to make it so that hit can cancel rage out similar to the way a person using custom combos in the alpha games has the custom combo state canceled if they get hit.
6:) Stun: I think stun would benefit this game because a lot of damage can come from stray hits. The game in general seems to reward defensive play so I think having stun would give some inventive to play more offensive.
I think the Rage Explosion system needs revisiting. It and Issen are the two things I really dislike about SS7.
For one, I think your Rage Explosion meter should keep draining even when you get knocked down like it does in 5Sp. This gives you more incentive to be smart about your offense so you don’t waste time in hitstun or knocked down.
Issen is a SF4 Ultra-bad comeback mechanic in this game. You get down to red life, and your Issen will do 80% without you having to earn that at all. IMO, if Issen is going to do THAT much damage, you should have to meditate or give something up to get that, either that or keep the damage at 30-50%, especially given how fast it comes out and how unless you bait it out, it happens way too fast to do anything about.
But the threat of being hit by an Issen kills the momentum of a lot of matches as soon as someone pops off a RE. Instead of going after each other or at least trying to get into position to do something, the non-Raged player backs down and gets defensive so they don’t end up having to drop a round and possibly the match because they tried to do something while the other player had a 80% OHKO loaded up.
Other than all that, I think the game is really good. I wish the characters felt more effective, but this game has a rhythm all its own and it’s completely different from most other SamSho games so it’s taken me awhile to get used to.
The netcode is actually really good if you’re playing on a solid (wired, fiber grade) connection. It’s not rollback, but I’ve had a really good experience with it and gotten solid connections to Europe, Japan, and even parts of South America.
People get mad about netcode, but I think we should be getting mad at our telecoms for not having the connection standards they have in other parts of the world when they clearly have the ability to make that happen.