Samurai Shodown Anthology

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
561

This tier discussion is stupid and relative. If you want to talk about tiers then talk about matchups first. If you can’t fill out a complete matchup list for a character then you really don’t know where that character is in the tiers.

Okay, so regarding Rera on the Wolf:

While in front:
Forward dash can be quick canceled by tapping up for one frame (1F). She will instantly stop and return to neutral standing and can do anything after that. If it’s held for more than one frame she will jump instead.

Two HS attacks in a row with knock the opponent down (for example j.HS into standing HS, or HS dash cancel quick cancel HS) if it combos. She does have an inhumanly possible infinite from the front using the quick cancel though: [MS, dash cancel, quick stop]xN

Holding back during a dash will cause Rera to go into a dash cool-down pose. During this pose you can block, but can’t perform any other action. That means any attack that connects can be canceled into “block” because you can block immediately after dash canceling it.

From behind:
If the wolf crosses through the opponent pressing up turns Rera around. You can hold up for 14 frames during this ‘turn around state’ before Rera will jump (she won’t jump until she turns around). The turn around state is cancelable by any action other than normal movements (so no walking or jumping). But blocking, dashing, backdashing, and attacking are possible ways to cancel the turn around. Attacks will be neutral standing/crouching attacks. So you can dash “through” the opponent and press up as soon as you touch their “back” and then attack immediately and it will be a normal attack instead of dashing attack.

On the Wolf frame data:
Wolf Frames:

startup/hit/block
LS 10/-3/-15
MS 10/-3/-15
HS 17/+2/-30
BC 21/D/-4

c.LS 10/-3/-15
c.MS 10/-3/-15
c.HS 13/D/-26

d.LS 7/D/-21
d.MS 7/D/-21
d.HS 7/D/-21

uncanceled~canceled landing recovery
j.LS 5/+4~+14/-2~+10
j.MS 5/+4~+14/-2~+10
j.HS 15/+31~+37/-2~+5

Dash Canceling:

hit/block
LS +13/+2
MS +13/+2
HS +30/-1

c.LS +15/+2
c.MS +15/+2
c.HS D/-6

Now what all that stupid number shit means:
NONE of Rera’s on-the-wolf attacks are safe on block. The best thing to do on block is: backdash cancel, dash cancel into block, or dash cancel into jump/quickstop. However, hitconfirming can be rather difficult as well.

There that’s all I have to say about Rera. Stop trying to stick her into fucking tiers, okay? No one gives a shit.

562

First of all you can attack safe, its a gltich i call dash cancel. And you may have mentioned it im not sure. But rera can non stop attack and most characters cannot counter. I do not use this cause i think its cheap and illegal. But if i did no one would say any thing any ways. here is dash cancel [media=youtube]_2Ziu0dhSlo&feature=related[/media]

Now lets forget these # and all this stuff that is irrelavent to me. If you where garia and you where blocking in this vid you basicly could never counter me. And i could just do medium slash - dash cancel into block before you are even done blocking the medium slash. Its just its very hard.

In order to make rera’s attacks safe its a guessing game. I dont go by # i go by pure experience. Example

rera BC dash cancel backwords- unsafe cause multiple attacks from multiple characters will hit rera while backdashing

rera BC no dash- unsafe cause after bc you are open to be grabed

Now the trick is using the perfect amount of both, so when you do dash back after bc they dont expect it. So her atatcks can be safe and easily be safe.

I dont get your “stop trying to put rera into tiers” comment. Who cares what i do, i dont get why you care so much. The reason me and japanese players discuss tiers is because thats what we like to talk about. who cares? i do . so i dont get if your trying to insult me or what but i know rera maybe better than any other character.

So thats not the best thing you can do on the wolf, actully there are 2 or 3 better things you can do after a slash on the wolf.

1.block

2.dash cancel

3.jump off the wolf

Im guessing you got your info from mauve, any ways besides # of frames and all that rera takes massive amounts of damage. She is one of the best combo orientated character in the game. I have seen manny poeple use rera but I have seen 0 rera players combo well. She can take 100% life on a light,medium or hard slash on the wolf. So with that being said there is no way in he// she is C tier.

Btw zenozip you play ss5sp now ? we gota play some time , im interested to see how good you are now. last time we played you had just started.

563

ok this is dash cancel

quote zenozip
While in front:
“Forward dash can be quick canceled by tapping up for one frame (1F). She will instantly stop and return to neutral standing and can do anything after that. If it’s held for more than one frame she will jump instead”.

But thats not how it works, you can only dash cancel during certain wolf frames. The wolf can go 2 full strides across the screen. In one stride he can do 3 dash cancels that i have found.

  1. when hit front paws rise to the highest point

  2. when front paws touch the ground

3.when all 4 paws are on the ground touching each other(very end of stride, getting ready to go to next)

I am sure there are other dash cancel times but these are the ones i have found.

One other thing

You can dash cancel at any time during a slash, I could throw out hard slash, wait for you to run or attack or what ever and make the right choice. example

rera standing hard slash(blocked)- you go to grab me- i wait till you are about to be in grab range and backdash> but it all happens so fast that the backdash is actully me canceling backdash after Hard slash.

564

That means you didn’t even read what I wrote.

No, I didn’t.

I can get information on my own.

You’re still making it a risky guessing game and you didn’t listen to me at all.

I said.

Stop trying to put her in tiers.

Okay?

565

why do you care? And you forgot to mention she can attack safe with dash cancel. Tier have been made 100’s of times who cares what i think. Besides that ill talk about what ever i want , cmon man your being crazy. I dont mean that to offend.

Its not a risky guessing game, its a safe guessing game and this is a 100% safe guessing game [media=youtube]_2Ziu…eature=related[/media]

So rera can be totally safe no matter what # you put up. Maybe when mauve made this he didnt test dash cancel cause it seems he didnt even know how to do it all the way. I just figured you got info form mauve cause he made abunch of ss5sp FAQ at gamefaqs.com , dont get offended.

I said you may have mentioned it but i didnt know what you where talking about cause you said

“Forward dash can be quick canceled by tapping up for one frame (1F). She will instantly stop and return to neutral standing and can do anything after that. If it’s held for more than one frame she will jump instead”.

Which is only paritally correct, yes you have to input Up in 1 frame but you cant do it at any time.

dont get mad man i really dont understand why you getting so angery. No one cares yet you are here basicly yelling at me.

Any ways i think you a cool dude , so please just chill and lets play some time please.

566

No I’m not yelling. I don’t even know why you say that I am.

I posted to no one and now you’re involving yourself.

And yes you can stop on the wolf at any time and I can prove it. You are misunderstanding what I am saying because you don’t understand what a frame is. Those numbers you read, you just don’t get it. But it doesn’t matter.

All that stuff doesn’t matter and it’s fine. Whatever. It’s cool.

What matters is: stop putting Rera in tiers.

567

Okay i will stop if you admit rera can be 100% safe with this [media=youtube]_2Ziu…eature=related[/media]

And lets play some time you sound like you been playign alot of ssvsp.

Edit: you posted regaurding soomethign i said, so of course i will reply. Expecially when i know your not right.

568

Oh that URL link got broken.

Use the link button? Should work…

569

ok here [media=youtube]_2Ziu0dhSlo&feature=related[/media]

this is dash cancel done very very fast. one other thing bothers me. why do you care so much about how rera is tier’ed? Do you just not like tier in ssvsP? or you dont like poeple saying rera is S tier? Cause all i said was i think rera is S tier and you show me all these # and say dont tier rera. Its kinda confusing.

You say no one cares, then write up all these # i really dont get it.

570

Yeah that. I already said she can do that in my first post. She can do that mid-screen too not just corner. And all the way to 100% life from mid-screen.

I talk about tiers because this game isn’t like that. To say she is top tier is misguiding to other people.

If you want to say you’re the best in the world and that you’re the best with Rera I won’t argue that. No one can disprove it so it must be true. But, to say Rera is the best character, I will argue that, because I think it’s wrong.

But more importantly than what is right or wrong: the matchup between one character and another.

You must properly rank Rera against: Suija, Basara, Charlotte, Genjuro, and all the other characters.

I understand what you are saying. But you are everyone else are too different. But if you always guess right with Rera then that’s different from everyone else that doesn’t always guess right. I would think the character that I am best with is the best character in the game too, but that’s now always true. That’s why I say stop.

571

samurai shodown 5 special run at 60fps correct? i am not sure about frames, you are correct. But you say in 1 second i could do dash cancel at 60 different pionts? Then why cant i? i press up with in one frame easily, yet only when the wolf is in certain animations can i cancel dash into block. Please i am very interested, explain to me. If i could dash cancel at any time i feel like i would be unstopable.

Ok i apoligize if i offended you, i just really didnt understand where you where comming from. Any ways please we need to play some time, can you get on 2dfighter.com? I have played this game for manny years and have always thought it was balanced. But recently i dont feel that way. But i will admit its misleading to new players because alot of characters coud be best in the game.

572

Yeah it’s faster than a second. A lot faster.

Tomorrow when I can post more, then I record it and show you. Because I think showing you is better than explaining it anyway.

I just want to say though: Rera to you is solid and top tier, but I am sure it is because you guess right all the time. People who do not guess right will lose because they guess wrong. That is why Rera can’t be top tier (except yours) because she is not SOLID at all unless you guess right.

But tomorrow I can show you what I mean. It is possible midscreen at any distance if you do it fast enough.

573

I do this in matches [media=youtube]_2Ziu0dhSlo&feature=related[/media] i can do 2 in arow consistantly. that is what it looks like when it hits an opponent. But its just as fast when they are blocking too. If rera is close enough to opponent when she does dash cancel into medium slash she cannot be counterd till she stops. But what if the person didnt stop? it would be 100% safe even on block.

This is my piont, this is 100% safe on block [media=youtube]_2Ziu0dhSlo&feature=related[/media] so rera does have a 100% safe move on the wolf. Poeple will say she isnt top tier because your average person cannot perform rera’s glitches accuratly. So they cannot use dash cancel into med. Any ways all characters are open alot of the time, but i think rera is very rarely open compared to other characters. ANd infact she is one of few characters that can be 100% safe after a blocked slash. Shizumaru too (back dash up light slash(umbrella)-N- down light slash)

Do you have a 2dfighter.com account, is there some way we can play? And thanks for the info in advance

574

When Rera hits them: Yes; safe.

When Rera’s attack is blocked: No; unsafe.

Thats why I say when Rera is blocked it is never safe. Because then it is a matter of guessing, like you said.

She can dash cancel, but it’s still not safe if the opponent does it right. When it is a matter of guessing, Rera is good when you guess correctly/right all the time. Or the opponent guesses wrong.

When you hit them they are stunned for much longer. Like Sogetsu’s bubble; if they block the bubble they can attack right after blocking, but if they are hit they can’t do anything for a very long time.

Thats how Rera’s attacks work. If they hit they are very safe, totally safe. If they are blocked then it becomes a guessing game because they are not safe – but you have options to beat your opponents options.

575

No even on block, what can you do? It hits one hit right after another. Even on block if you do dash cancel fast enough it cant be counterd. Besides all this rera is super strong. And only about half the characters in the game can hit rera after slash-backdash.

If rera does dash cancel as fast as it can be done what attacks will hit? In all the matches i have played no one has ever counterd me after dash cancel, medium slash dash( i could get hit right here is what your saying) up medium slash as fast as can be done like in the vid i keep showing you. What attacks counter this? i dont think you see that rera is canceling medium slash animation into another medium slash which is also being canceled.

Can you do dash cancel? you said

. She does have an inhumanly possible infinite from the front using the quick cancel though: [MS, dash cancel, quick stop]xN

I CAN DO THAT… just i can only do it 2 times consistantly. This is possible for a human to do cause i can do it which i been telling you all along. If you do this on a blocking opponent they cannot counter. Maybe maybe maybe one or two characters can counter with jab, maybe.

you said
"Two HS attacks in a row with knock the opponent down (for example j.HS into standing HS, or HS dash cancel quick cancel HS) if it combos"

yes 2 hard slash will combo with dash cancel. So that means you have never done dahs cancel? how didnt you know 2 hard slash’s combo?

576

Yeah ok your right, i guess i just had the timming down in my head. So who do you play ss5sp with? is mauve still around. Do you know any strong players besides yourself? i am down to play :slight_smile: it makes me happy to see some one who knows so much about ss5sp:) Who do you main now? Is the smahso irc channel still around?

577

Sorry I was gone for most of the day. Here’s the video.

[media=youtube]1OtWTIYbFC0[/media]

She can stop any time during the dash with the quick-stop.

I know it doesn’t combo for some of the hits but it doesn’t matter. The fact is it actually can combo if your timing is perfect. It can be an infinite if you do it right.

Anyway though, it’s not “safe” on block. On a block Rera only begins her dash about 2-frames before the opponent, so that means the opponent can do attack at the same time Rera can. All Rera can do if the opponent blocks is: forward dash cancel into block, backdash cancel, or quickstop/jump. The reason is because blocking-stun is much shorter than hit-stun (for like every character).

Anyway if the Japanese say “your Rera is top tier” they just mean you guess right all the time. But other people who pick her aren’t going to guess right all the time, which makes not that good.

578

Ok Now about rera, her wolf game is 50/50 . But if rera gueses right than she will take 50% life, If the other character gueses right in most cases you only take a jab or med slash worth of life. So risky vs reward she is worth it. She is strong as hell and fast, and she is very safe compared to other characters in the game. What im woundering is if you dont use rera how come you know about her hit frames and all this stuff. How are you doing dash cancel if you cant use her? I still think she is top tier, really she is better than almost all the cast. with the exception of shizumaru kusgedo suija. Every character leaves themself open. If poeple think rera is top tier there is a reason. And im not the only one who thinks this. WHen i used ot talk to chinese player xial3020, he said that rera was in chinese S tier… rera has no bad match ups, tell me one? rera’s win tournaments all the time. You have no ecperience vs good players so how can you tell me how good rera is? all you show me is#, but you dont know how strong rera actully is.

Like i said its 50/50 game but when i win i take massive amounts of damage, you win you might jab or grab me… I have been playing pro players from japan and all they can do is jab me off the wolf most the time. So what you say is irrelavent to me.

EDIT: watch any asain samurai shodown 5 combo video and xial3020 helped make it.

579

Also ill add that only 5 or 6 characters can punish rera after slash backdash… So vs most the cast she can attack safley given she is at the right distance when she slashes. And in alot of cases she doesnt even have to be at the right distance. only a handfull of characters can counter rera slash- backdash. This is something #'s dont tell, its something some one would know from experience.

580

Question about the fire verison of Kuzuki, the cpu done a multi hit move which took like 50% of my energy, it salms me at the very end of it, otherwise if it doesnt he gets tired

what was it and you cant tell me you can do that against human players, damage wise ?