WTF do we do with this? If a bison gets me into a corner and spams lk -> lk.scissors the fight is over for me!
[EDIT] ^^ Heaps of useful info, thanks!
Wow, nice Flowers. I’m not so sure at the not jumping at Bison though. Since a well ranged j.lp stuffs his s.hk clean.
*just try’d to edit it all in and I accidentally canceled it :’( I’ll edit it in another time. (I should have made a 3rth reserved btw, the first one is already full and the second on is on 50%). Fergus2k8 and Mr. Flowers, do you mind deleting you post so I can get some extra space?
blankas hop tricks are completely shut down by c.mp… blankas stop hopping on me.
I can offer a few pointers vs Makoto. As you probably already know her defense isn’t the best, so pressure games on her a bit easier to apply than most. Be careful trying to throw fireballs at her though, because she can IA Tsurugi over those and whallop you in the face. HK and EX Tsurugis knock down also, and without 3 bars Makoto can do a lot of the same things you can do to her on wakeup. Outside of untech knockdowns though, I’d say that a poking game would be good to play against Mak because her footsies aren’t the best. s.rh is your friend in this match. as is c.mk > hp sho.
Personally this is one of my favorite matchups to play in SSFIV from either end. This is the definition of a 5-5 matchup in my opinion.
good shit flowers… with vega… i play a very good vega all the time (hes gotten some consistent wins against top level players) and i also got the privilege of money matching Tatsu at NCR, which helped me learn some shit… meaty lk shunpuu shut vegas wake up options down. Also, get vega in the corner and you have a free win. (im a littel drunk so im not able to go into details)
adon’s arc kicks are such a huge problem to deal with. fireball mixups and lucky st.mks are all i got for them – and, is his kick safe on block?
i was facing a terrible adon for an hour and having a lot of trouble with him.
i was playing an a decent adon and was learning some things about the fight, but yeah he can give me issues still because i dont know the fight all too well yet. but, for his arc kick, you can tell whether its a TK airborne one or a floor one by what he says when he does the move. if its airborne, you can FA it and score a crumple. only the ground one is armor break. also, if youre zoning him correctly and have a decent reaction time, you can punish his arc kicks with a lp. shouoken. i was able to catch quite a few once i learned about this.
Yes his EX Jaguar Tooth is safe so your best option is to block and try to tech because Adon will most likely grab or retreat.
Yeah its safe so gotta c.hp when under his attack or lp shou. Of course this is all dependent on spacing. He can space it so only the tip hits but that can be backdashed if you are quick so its all about mind games, reactions and awareness
correction: JAGGA TOOS
Hay guise, Ibuki main here. And I am questioning this:
If you block her ex dp, just dash under. Sakura’s hitbox is small enough for any possible followup kunai to miss during her dash. Unless the ex dp is blocked at like max range, but this is very rare.
How exactly is U2 going to stop Ibuki from vortexing you?
You can punish her neckbreakers harder with st.HP xx lk.tatsu , cr.HP xx whatever. No need to do cr.LK/cr.LP nonsense. You’re not hit confirming, you’re punishing.
Question it if you want. Edit my post even. I don’t really care. Its just some general match up stuff.
I think jump in is a better option than forward dash when it comes to punishing kunai after ex dp anyway.
There are times when U2 can hit Ibuki when she jumps at you with kunai. I said it can stop her trying to start a vortex. I didn’t say it can save you when you are in the middle of one eating kunai on your wake up. Its more likely U2 will land on her than U1 in this match.
Anyway I didn’t write the TC note at the bottom but lets just say that neckbreaker is punishable shall we? Anybody who cares enough will go look at frame data anyway and test stuff out on their own in training mode. I doubt anyone will come back from a tournament and say, “I lost the match because the TC note said I should hit-confirm when I could have just straight punished with c.hp xx whatever but I didn’t know and lost damage so I lost the tournament.”
Changed it*
In AE it will probably be c.mk > srk to punish because of the bigger spacing.
Jump in is just going to get stuffed by the kunai. You can neutral jump with like nj.HK, but due to spacing, your options are limited afterward. You can nj.HK , cr.MK xx shouoken if you don’t have meter, or nj.HK , cr.LK xx ex tatsu if you do, but neither of these compare with the damaging combo you get if you just dash forward. And then there’s the possibility of no kunai follow up, in which case if you jump, Ibuki is just going to recover in time to block or backdash or whatever.
Obvious forward jumps with kunai are indeed U2 punishable, as with all obvious jump ins. But I wouldn’t bank on any good Ibukis simply jumping at you, even if she can cover her landing with a kunai. At best, we’ll do an instant kunai during footsies to get in, which is hard to react to.
What do you mean by start a vortex? Ibuki can only vortex you if you’re knocked down.
I’m sure you’ll get plenty of opportunities to land U1, just like you’ll get plenty of opportunities to land ex tatsu.
I don’t think anybody will say that, but I thought one of the helpful things of a matchup guide was to tell you what stuff is punishable and with what combos/specials? Not “xyz is punishable but I’m not going to tell you what your best options are. Go read up on frame data and test it yourself for that.”
Sorry if I came off as rude earlier. I was only just trying to help.
i cry a little everytime i fight ibuki and get stuck in that damn vortex =(
Just FA -> dash out of it. Though this might require you to be a bit familiar with the vortex such that you always dash away from where Ibuki lands. Things start getting tricky when Ibuki starts to try to reaction sweep or option select, but at least you’d make it that much harder for the Ibuki player to vortex.
When a person reads this thread, the information should be optimized so that this hypothetical person you have come up with shouldn’t have lost the tournament because of it. Sure, players should check the frame data but when it says “Punish neckbreakers with this shitty hit confirm combo” they are going to think that is the only thing that punishes them simply because this thread is supposed to be an amalgamation of many different and potentially very good Sakura’s matchup tips.
Catching Ibuki doing a vortex with U2 is only really possible if she does the vortex where she jumps super low to the ground and throws a kunai. Otherwise, once you’re in the vortex U2 will be of little help to you.
Okay well I only tried to offer the little I know about SSF4 to this thread.
How about instead of everyone disputing my words you guys just all write your own match up thoughts on each character? That way, with a collective everyone will see a bigger picture on each match up. Funny I don’t see the greats like Skatan posting up any guide for us.
Anyway I put a spoiler tag on the long post I made.
I’m sorry but Mr.Flowers didn’t post anything about punishing with c.lk, c.lp, c.mk > srk. That was me, no argue necessary.
I didn’t think of punishing harder then that.
Anyway don’t sweat it, I think we’re all greatfull for the matchup information you wrote Mr.Flowers, atleast I am.
=( .