I see. I just see alot more people useing SAI then SAIII. Explain…?
you probably don’t see enough of Kokujin :lol:. he’s pretty much all Corkscrew now. i think VictoLy is the same. in his “retirement” vid, Vic used Rocket exclusively, but in more recent match vids he uses Corkscrew quite a bit.
i think the only recognizable Dudley player in Japan that still sticks to Rocket Uppercut is Jima.
now back to the debate of which super is better, i really think that versatility (moreso than safety) is the main issue. there are just more situations where you can successfully land Corkscrew. by successfully i mean that you connect with all the hits. reason i say safety isn’t as big of a deal is because you land both supers identically, via links/hit confirms. so quite frankly, you don’t have an excuse to miss one. the only time you probably will miss one is if you do a wake up super.
you actually don’t even have to block/parry the third uppercut. right as Dudley lands from the second, you can hit him and combo him just like you can combo Makoto if she misses Abare. block the first 3 hits then smack her before she does the Fukiage part of her super. oh. if you’re using a Shoto vs. a Dudley that misses Rocket, if you wanna parry, you can just down parry the third uppercut ONCE :lol:.
:rock:
I actually have watch Kokujin and Vic (Only a few Koku though). I’m not saying SAI is better then SAIII at all; hell I don’t even play as Dudley. Im just trying to see this out, but thanx guys. Prove your points more if you want
i only use sa3 now lol. its just a better super. its way more versatile, jab version is hella safe on wakeup, and you get more of them meaning more f+rh supers. i use either super vs a couple characters, but sa3 mainly.
SA1 is the better super. More time to link (fastest startup in the super duper universe), more damage.
But SA3 should be used against certain characters like Yun and Yang and your mom.
SA1 Is Just So Hot Looking 
SA1 and SA3 have the exact same start up :o. the damage is almost irrelevant for the amount of SA3s you get, they also do very similar damage when linked after f+rh.
They both have a 1 frame start up. I think comparing SAI and SAIII for Dudley is almost like comparing SAI and SAIII for Ken. Yeah Ken’s SAI does more damage and has alot of EX just like SAI for Dudley compared to there SAIIIs, but its what the super can do. Is that what your trying to say Epsilion_??
kind of, btw both of those supers have 2 frame startups, there are only like 4 1 frame startup supers.
i don’t think it’s 1 frame, but both supers do have identical start up times.
no. Ken’s Shoryureppa shouldn’t even be used :lol:. as i said earlier, you land both of Dudley’s supers exactly the same way—via hit confirms and links. you can kinda do the same with Shoryureppa and Shippu, but then range becomes a factor. for Shoryureppa to link off of Ken’s linkable normals, it has to be point blank whereas Shippu doesn’t have to be. the way Dudley’s hit confirms work, you’re always gonna be within range to bust out either Rocket or Corkscrew.
Rocket does a tad more than Corkscrew, yeah. but again, it evens out because you get more stock for Corkscrew. 2 main advantages for Corkscrew i’d say are
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you can pretty much always have 1 super + 1 or 2 EXes stocked. can’t say the same for Rocket.
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you can use Corkscrew in more situations than Rocket. by this i mean that there isn’t any chance of Corkscrew making your opponent bounce the other way.
also, i’ma reiterate the fact that the only time safety should really be a concern between Rocket and Corkscrew is if you wanna do a wake up super because you cannot confirm that.
:rock:
Well, acording to the 3s frame data, there 1 frame start ups, and the rolling thunder, is a two framer.
To confirm this. I capture Dudley doing his rocket upppr super at point blank range on Q. I made sure to capture it at a 60 frame format, and I went though frame by frame. Directly after the Super animation ended, the super hit, making it a 1 frame super. I made sure to capture Qs walking animation as well, so after the super animation if I seen Q move as well, it wouldnt of been a 1 framer, but he didnt move.
So im sure its a 1 framer
here is why that is wrong, and both supers have a 2 frame startup
kens close s.fp is at -2, however you cant punish it with a reversal super.
kens c.mk is at -3, and you CAN punish it with both supers.
yeah, corkscrew is safer right? You can always punish it (or am I wrong?) but it is at least 10 times safer than rocket if blocked… easier to land bigger damage stuff after blocked rocket.
This is because the first frame of the super hits at extremly close range, and that the Sc.Frc pushs Dudley back far anough so that that the first frame of super animation is out of range. The other thing I notice that your wrong on is that an attack that has a -2 frame advantage CAN be hit with an attack with a 2 frame start up.
Example:
Hugo’s crouching strong has a -2 frame advantage, and Ken’s SAIII has a 2 frame start up. That first frame in which Ken’s attack box opens (on the 2nd frame) for his SAIII is when the foot is fully extended. If Hugo’s crouching strong is blocked, and Ken reversals his SAIII, then it connects. :rolleyes:
Example 2:
Ibukis Crouching Short has a +3 frame advantage and her Crouching Jab has a start up of 3… and they can link :rolleyes:
Example 3:
Chun’s Short Hyakuretsu Kyaku has a frame advantage of +3. Chun-Lis Start up on her SAII is 3… they link :rolleyes:
And the example you gave with Ken’s Sc.Frc, try that with Ken’s SAIII on reversal…
I think Im done
ok yeah youre right, it does have 1 frame start. i just tested it with SA1 instead which does hit kens s.fp on reversal.
you were right, i was wrong. sorry.
Dude its all good. I not trying to bash you or anything. But the rolling thunder had a 2 frame start up (point blank)
the reason there was a mixup is because in cvs2 you cannot punish a move that has negative frames equal to the move youre tying to punish.
(sagat lv2 tiger raid cannot be punished with another sagat s.jab)
(guile lv2 rush super cant be punished with chun or geese c.jab)
Well, you got me there. i don’t know a thing about CvS2’s frame data.
Hahah, really? I thought it had enough blockstun so you couldn’t punish before the third uppercut. 
I don’t come across Dudley players, and if I do they usually are really scrubby and it doesn’t matter. :?
I just went into training mode with it, and the bar is shorter than I thought on SAI, though.
Why use SAI on Q? As a Q player, I’m more worried about Dudley’s SAIII than SAI. The main reason is that the more meter Dudley has, the harder it is for me to taunt, since he can ex machine gun me out of a taunt in just about any non-after-super situation. If he’s just done a Rocket, chances are he has little to no meter left, and if he doesn’t have enough to EX anything,my life as Q becomes much easier. Q can punish both supers on block with both his SAI and SAII, but Rocket gives time for both standing forward xx dash punch xx super (not just reversal super) and c&db --> whatever I want. I know Rocket deals a little more damage, and against a taunt-maxed Q you want that, but honestly, that doesn’t seem like a good enough reason to me to use it.