The dic matchup is very simple if you’re far away he can hs and dr all day but up closeup you take away both those options and leave him with only being able to scissor you on block and if you’re yomi skills are up to par he will fear the fierce dp.
Basically play like your alex valle and you have the advantage.
zoolander, have you played ald_one at all? I’m curious what you’d score out of 20 matches against him because he’s a good barometer to compare my Sagat to yours since ald_one plays almost everyone I have trouble with: Claw, Dictator, and Boxer.
how easy is it to jump low tiger shots after the first few frames it has come out to kick/punch sagat cleanly from close range? it seems like a lot of people are well-versed to just wait, especially with the quicker characters, for a tiger shot and then jump over it and pounce. i’m living in some kinda lala land thinking that i have enough time to TU it. I maybe be able to, a lot of times which I don’t even try when they’re at such close range, but it’d require anticipating their jump in which if they do i punish, but if i don’t and they throw another projectile then i’m at the disadvantage.
I see no solution except to master a motion for the fb/tu that allows flexibility to transpose the TU and tiger shot depending on how they react. Something along the lines of starting a D, DF, F immediately then (no jump in: + PUNCH) or (jump in: + DF, D, DF, Punch) Hopefully this could put the pressure on them to time start anticpating the FB instead of reacting to it.
I don’t play Sagat, but you might be getting predictable. Mix up Tiger Shot speeds and heights (obviously the high shots are harder to jump over). I got murdered by a Sagat the other night because he kept mixing up his tiger shots and I always guessed wrong. I know when I sit there and block 3 or more shots in a row I’m trying to figure out if my opponent is just mindlessly spaming tiger shots or if the player is actually trying to mix things up. The fact that Sagat’s hands extend so far out makes him a really easy target if you clear the tiger shot so you want to do everything in your power to keep them from jumping over them. And if they do, Tiger Uppercut! But you yourself already mentioned you are trying to get into the habit of this.
Does Sagat have a normal that cleanly hits any of these: honda torpedos, dictator psycho crushers, or blanka rolls?
Haven’t played him in a while and yes he’s definitely one of the better players on psn however, from what I remember he didn’t give me as much trouble as what you’re describing. What exactly are you having problems with in these matchups?
If claw pokes you a lot that means he’s vulnerable to jrh and be sure to whiff lp to make him think you whiffed adp and bait him into walldive then punish with dp which will make him more reluctant to jumpin/walldive on you.
Like I said before from full screen the match is in dic’s favor because he can get away with headstomp and devil easily but if you get in close and corner him you take away his air game leaving him with only scissorkick or psycho crusher to fight his way out both of which you can dp on reaction if you look for it. Also once you corner him n make him scared of your dp don’t be afraid to tick throw him with jlk and after he;s scared of the throw use cr mk into rh fb for chip, and st lk for more pressure but if cr mk hits you can combo into rh tk:nunchuck:
Boxer…yeah it’s a terrible matchup lol I play somewhat aggressively with sagat but this is the one matchup where you have to zone from full screen to win. just be way of buffalos and use fb mixups to keep him out and chip him to death from full screen.
I’ve tried to help you as best as I can if you still have massive difficulty then make a room invite players who are good with the characters above and watch me play them, I’m not a reputable or anythign but maybe you might see something in my sagat to help your sagat.
If you’re looking for a normal to beat out these moves then you’re not using sagat the right way, why do you even need a normal when fb’s cleanly beat all 3 out?
if you would just answer the question i gave, it’d be of more help. Yes I know you can use the TU and high tiger shot but there are some situations where this is not an option, plus i’m looking for moves to mix in with my tiger shots against these characters
and now that you’re on my friends list i’ll invite you to any rooms where i want to see these strategies you speak of in action
I don’t think you understood his answer.
The point he was making is that if Blanka, Honda, and Dictator can easily clear your Low Tiger Shots from full screen range and hit you with the Horizontal Ball, Sumo Headbutt, and Psycho Crusher, respectively, then if anything, you should be throwing High Tiger Shots if they have a charge (provided, of course, that you are outside of the range of any crouching attacks that go under them and Honda doesn’t :lp: Headbutt your attempt) and only throwing Low Tiger Shots when you know they won’t react to them (i.e. from up close or in a block string). Of course, Blanka has the added bonus of his Slide (:df:+:hp:) sliding under High Tiger Shots from beyond his crouching :hp: range), so you really have to out-think him.
In any case, at best, you can try to spam st.:lp: or cr.:lp:, but due to the fact that they don’t renda cancel (rapid-fire chain) with each other, a High Tiger Shot really is your best prevention tool. No timing required except that you do it more than 13 frames before they can hit you. 
Otherwise, if you see it coming, you know it will hit you, and you can do something about it, use that Tiger Uppercut for maximum damage.
But, I think from the start of these matches, you really have to re-think your usage of Tiger Shots as zoning tools since they both have so many moves that counter or escape them.
I think the best solution for me is to start blocking more. I usually don’t block and try to respond to everything thrown at me in some shape or form.
More frequently now I find myself hesitating with spamming a projectile after they get pushed far enough away and I have no block stun to work with because I’m worried about a jump in, so then when they do throw a projectile I’m now on the defensive responding to their projectile. Usually my response is to try and tiger shot cancel but this is not as good of an option as jumping in, so I need to change this habit.
Basically my entire game plan relies on spamming tiger shots to entice them to jump in so I can tiger uppercut, but more and more now I realize that this strategy fails against certain characters and those who know when to jump in and when not to. My secondary strategy is a tiger knee whiff into dp/throw when I think they’re expecting another tiger shot. Against characters with poor anti-air responses I use the j.LK with a throw or c.LK + tiger shot to cheap them guessing. Think of me as a turtling Sagat that loves to spam tiger shots.
I’ve started to work on using the 5 hit j.FK s.FP double tiger knee which is a great weapon but it requires proper spacing to work effectively and I don’t have any consistency with the the j.FK, c.MK double tiger knee (which I prefer against non-dizzies) to get my Sagat to the next level. I think mixing in more of the s.LK and s.FP will help a bit too.
My biggest issue are the characters who take away the foundation of how I want to play and I just don’t know how to be an effective Sagat without it. I think it requires working more from a standing position and using pokes/tiger knees and selective tiger shots but I’m kinda stubborn so it takes me a while to adjust.
Listen to OJ he laid it down, also this may sound overly simple and I forgot who said this but it’s by far the best and most effective advice I’ve ever gotten concerning fighting games;
“Don’t let the opponent play their game”
I perfer to play slightly on the more aggressive side against anyone not named balrog or honda and push opponents into the corner without getting too close to limit their options while maximizing mine. The tradeoff here is that it makes it that much harder to do dp’s on reaction to torpedo type moves, however anyone who can’t dp on reaction shouldn’t use him imo lol.
You say you don’t block enough, that to me indicates you fall for reversal bait it’s a common mistake even top players make good thing you recognize it and can address it before it becomes a habit. You say you hesitate spamming fb’s…that right there shows you have the wrong mindset with sagat’s fb’s because a good sagat player NEVER spams fb’s even if it looks like they are. A good sagat thoughtfully zones and while throwing fb’s constantly thinks in his mind “how many fb’s can I get away with before my opponent decides to react?”
You hesitating to throw that extra fb is like a shark smelling blood in the water the other guy will pickup on that hesitation and pounce immediately so even if you don’t know what to do ALWAYS keep active even if it’s just throwing out normals to indicate that you’re in control and know what you’re doing. To win consistently with sagat you have to instinctively know what your opponent’s chip damage threshold is and make them lower/extend it to catch them cleanly. Okay I know that sounds stupid let me explain lol. Let’s say you’re against dic if you throw out a lk fb and he blocks it then you have 2 choices: throw another lk fb or throw a rh fb if you throw the former you can follow it up with another lk or rh fb but only do so if you’re sure they will block and not react. If you throw an rh fb after the lk fb then usually that will make the opponent panic and react. If after a few blocked fb’s the opponent jumps in and you dp them that will scare them from jumping in again so use that fear of jumping to punish them with fb chip all day while at the same time feeling them out for that next jump.
You say your gameplan is to do exactly what I described above but the truth is if you were doing it successfully you wouldn’t be having a problem. See it shouldn’t be about the opponent knowing when to jumpin and when not to it should be about you dictating how much fb chip you do and knowing exactly when they will jumpin. Once you instill the fear of fb’s and get them to block a lot you should be able to j lk tick throw them which in turn will make them concentrate on looking for the throw which opens them up to being vulnerable to fb’s or jumpins so you see this is a cycle in which you have full control over.
I’ve said it before and this will be the last time I’ll say it. To win with sagat consistently all you have to do is be psychic know exactly when they will jumpin and know exactly how many fb’s you can throw at them without them contesting the chip they take, and dictate how they play you however seem to be letting the opponent dictate your play which is why you may be having problems.
I hope my scrubby advice helps. Once again the invitation to play me is always open.
I think the mindset he’s arguing from comes from an approach to the game that a lot of people develop, where they’re looking for the “right” way to apply pressure. “How do I time/space my fireballs such that they’re always safe?” or “How do I answer behavior X,” and I think your explanation is a great way of pointing out the problem in that approach.
“Safe” is a bad way to look at things in a fighting game. Certainly the term applies situationally–certain attacks being called “safe on block” has an obvious meaning, and there are certain specific situations where you will recover from attack soon enough that your opponent cannot specifically punish that, but those situations require work, and you will have to tread through unsafe waters to get there, and more often than not, you can’t keep in your safe bubble. If your opponent is able to do anything that might interrupt your gameplan–anything at all–then you are not safe.
Even those attacks that you recover from quickly enough that you can’t be punished shouldn’t be viewed as “safe” necessarily, because a mistake from a position of so-called safety can easily allow your opponent to close in and end then you are no longer in a position to not be punished. There is almost never “safety” until the opponent is knocked out. Even when you hold the dominant position, you have to out-think the opponent to keep it. So many Sagat and Ryu players seem to feel that at certain ranges their fireballs control space well enough that they can use them in any which way and be safe, and to a degree, they’re right. If I’m all the way across the screen and you’re spamming fireballs, I can’t punish the individual ones you’re throwing, but if you get predictable, I can make my way through them and then burst your bubble of safety. If you have them across the screen, don’t assume your next fireball will connect, don’t assume they’ll jump out of it–don’t assume anything. Get a feel for your opponent, and try to learn how they’ll react. You need to be constantly vigilant in the mind-games in order to hold that dominant position.
As for looking for “answers” to your opponent’s tactics, while it’s good to know what counters what, your best answer, as orochizoolander pointed out, is to not let them get comfortable enough to feel they get the luxury of playing their game. If you’re busy reacting to them, you don’t get to play your pressure game. Sure, you might get the right answer here and there and squeeze out some wins, but if you’re the one putting the pressure on them, they’re the ones who have to come up with the right answer, and once you have them reacting, you’re in charge.
Thank you, sir. I wasn’t sure that I actually did.
Oh, one more piece of advice for gradx…unless you’re really trying to keep the opponent close to you for some reason, use cr.:mk: XX any Tiger Shot, not cr.:lk: XX any Tiger Shot. I just rechecked the frame data and both normals have 5 frames of startup and 4 hitting frames. The difference between the two normals is that cr.:lk: has 6 frames of recovery while cr.:mk: has 8 frames of recovery. When you look at that difference and look at the fact that grounded weak attacks cause 11 frames of hit/block stun while grounded medium attacks cause 16 frames of hit/block stun, you come to this conclusion…cr.:lk: leaves you at a 2 frame advantage while cr.:mk: leaves you with a whopping 5 frame advantage!
Cr.:mk: is one of Sagat’s best pokes. It reaches farther, does more damage, and is his second best move to link from. (Cr.:mp: wins by one frame.) Remember a word of advice from my FAQ. The more “linkable” a move is, the easier it is to set up stuff with it. You can simply poke with it and walk forward, if you want to get closer, or you can interrupt it into a :hk: Tiger Shot and push them further back, or you can even use a slower Tiger Shot to give the illusion that they might be able to hit you before the Tiger Shot gets to them.
Did I mention that cr.:mk: can be followed up with any close standing move? It’s the grounded move that starts Sagat’s most powerful grounded combo. Very…useful. Use it.
Cr mk into rh fb or rh tk ALL DAY CR MK IS GDLK!
I’d like to take this opportunity to give a big fuck you to tk’s priority:arazz:
I’m semi-retired from STHD for now tp focus on SF4 but I was watching some vids of YaYa’s N-Sagat specifically to see why he said it was 8-2 vs Blanka and I see how we differ. He uses more normals like the s.FP especially for far away jump ins and I think that’d help my game tremendously. A lot of people used far away jump ins to confuse me at times because my main answers were the tiger knee as an early response but didn’t work so well as a late response. Then there was the c.MK I also used but so many people know to use moves that have trip guard so that wasn’t the best option either. I toyed around with s.FP but never tried to use it seriously and this was a big flaw I had. This s.FP is might also be effective against far away jump ins from DeeJay and Gief. Oh my other option was the high tiger shot but that required strict timing.
Another thing was I never tried to master the last few frame dp mastered which is another area I was failing in.
I also saw a vid of an R-Sagat and picked up a few tips on what to do against Claw’s wall dives, i.e. j.LP. I think this would help against Dictator as well.
Anyhow, when I have more time I’ll start using some of these things I saw in there game that was missing in mine to make me more versatile!
Thanks for the tips I’m learning more and more each day 
Sagat’s keep-out ability is the stuff of legends. Definitely a skill to master.
This one is huge. This was something I started learning back in Champion Edition and especially in Hyper Fighting. Not only is it essential to learn how to hit people with the first few hitting frames of the Tiger Uppercut, but it’s even better if you can do it from a crouch. Try ducking a Hurricane Kick and breaking out a Tiger Uppercut to counter it without standing up and getting hit by it. When you can do that, you’ll notice a change in your anti-air game.
I can do the TU from the crouch but the movement to the F position without something to buffer it (whiffed normal, tiger shot, etc) he peaks his head up just slightly. Is there some other motion that can get out the TU (like in SF4) without having to go to the F position?
^^If you do it fast enough, like lightning fast, your char will never get up. They’ll go directly from crouching into the Uppercut. When I used to play on stick back in the old arcade days, I could crouch into Shoryuken without getting hit by Tatsus consistently. But on pad it’s damn near impossible to keep from getting up.
Hello guys i’m totally new sagat player and i have a huge problems against players who stay on constant crouching block,i can’t throw and i can’t hit them if i try spamming tiger shots they just block and wait for good moment to jump counter me
What am i supposed to counter them with ? i try with ex focus attack but they kick my ass all of the time,also i play unuasually terribly versus Rufus i don’t have any wins versus this char he always manage to counter me wonderfully he has a nice vitality and pretty strong damage(i have to mention that most of rufus players play on crouch block though maybe that’s my problem)combining this with all their freaking counters i just make WAAAGH all the time.Also i think i play too ofensivelly with Sagat but i’m just much better attacking then defending and waiting for counter
thanks for help in advance
Rufus? EX Focus Attack? Sounds like SF4 to me. This is the SSF2T:HD Remix forum. I’m sure they can answer your question in the Sagat subforum of the SF4 forum, though. I hope you crack those turtle shells.
oops excuse me:wasted: