Juggle property and armor break property.
Use EX TU in ground combos. AS TU when you get a juggle with step roundhouse or if you want a safe jump set-up off of hk xx AS link to sweep.
Also just got ahold of Sagat’s frame data.I was off with TK. Seems like they just added various extra frames of recovery for each knee. lk they added 3 more frames. MK got 4 more. And HK got 6 more. EX Knee is untouched. Low shot recovery is 1 frame worse now at 45. Man they really came down hard on him. I’m shocked to see that he is still good, but then again everyone else got nerfed too so it’s all relative. I would stick with lk knee traps if you wanna rush guys seriously. Fall back on the MK TK from now on unless you have a death wish.
Here is the link to the data. http://www.sfframedata.com/walkthrough/pages/sagat.php
Still I’m not sold on the TK data completely simply because I used HK knee for my Ultra tests and Abel’s Ultra would not hit no matter how many times I tried.
But still, the frame data is a start. They didn’t mess with his normal so he can still meaty trap the shit out of people and the new chars mostly die to it for free, especially Cody and Makoto.
-18 in Super compare to -12 is SF4 is a pretty big nerf to a knee that couldn’t be reliably used in tiger knee trap is odd, yeah. And that extra frame of recovery on low tiger is another buff for honda.
But didn’t they say that they used a beta version of the game to make the frame datas and their method isn’t 100%?
honda is very buff :tup:
If only we had the rep system back…
Yeh also cr short x3 cr strong to short tk is what I’m using now as a tk string, otherwise st short short tk is pretty much solid, still hate the weird timing for that to combo now but I guess its about adapting.
Man people should know by now they destroyed sagat for the casual scrubs to buy the game… its even got Adon kneeing him in the face on the back of my cover just to reinstate that fact. Sagat has been nerfed to hell all scrubs rejoice! funniest thing is the scrubs dont even understand the nerfs. And why no mention of AS anywhere in the game? not in the book or the trials or movelist lol.
yh weird i was expecting some sick angry scar combos in trial mode but i didnt find any.
For the record, with the added recovery on Tiger Knees, I say the Rufus match got a lot harder.
its called “Angry Charge” and its under special moves in the command list.
Rufus got -100 health, and Sagat got -50 + weaker. Hmm, I think it is 5-5. But if Rufus use U2, then it will be hard for sagat
in sagats favor.
zone him out
kara upper/knee every jump,
too easy… still.
Knock Rufus down.
The fight is over.
I’m finding Sagat to still be the King, I just have one major problem. What do you guys do now when opponent is in vanilla st.LK>Low TS range? I’m finding st.forward and st.rh to be great, but if there’s any tips you guys could give that’d be appreciated. Mainly a way to push them out with chip damage…
forgive me if i’m misunderstanding here, but a perfectly spaced tiger knee can be crouched by most characters, causing it to whiff, can’t it? and in general, perfectly spaced tiger knees are now only giving 1-2 frame advantage.
wouldnt that pretty much mean tiger knee traps no longer exist in high level play and TK blockstrings should pretty much be forfeited except in extreme cases, since they technically don’t have to standing block unless it’s an improperly spaced tiger knee, putting you at frame disadvantage no matter what?
it seems like the only situation in which you could really even consider it worth it is in the corner with angry scar active when you’re fairly certain they’ll try something, since a stray tiger knee corner hit with AS active nets you around 210+ damage(TK hit>TU).
edit: to the poster above me, generally some combination of tiger shot(very rarely), jumping straight up, st.mk, changing spacing(backdash/dash/walk), focus(rare), and st.lk. st.lk is still the safest option; even if you can’t special cancel it, it still slows down their advance with(relatively) little risk.
A perfectly spaced LK or MK tigerknee will not whiff on crouchers, the only one that does ie HK tigerknee. However even at perfectly spaced distances, if it is blocked high, that’s a disadvantage right there, with perfectly spaced being a +1 or +2 advantage, being reduced to -1 or -2 or worse. TK traps still exist, just go one or two reps maximum, you have to make sure it’s perfectly spaced, there’s no room for error now like before where it would fluctuate from +1 to +5 advantage lol.
Yes that’s a pretty killer technique in the corner, since juggling with another TK results in pathetic damage. Like, really pathetic.
Thanks for the tips on that range, but the thing is st.lk is like, 10dmg at max range, and oh no I don’t even want to think if it counter-hits (13 dmg or some stupid shit like that?) so that’s pretty much taken out of that game. I’m just down there’s nothing I can do at that range to result in safely chipping them…besides a risky MK TK or a low tigershot which has an extra frame of recovery (yay capcom).
AS TU having armour break prpoerties is pretty cool. I’ve caught many an unsuspecting player with kara TU during their FA. I’m having trouble comin up with a consistent BnB as well. I’m still using the old staple cLK cLK cLP TU purely out of habit, but everytime I look at the damage it makes me sad.
He’s still strong in a lot of areas… his rushdown game may have been shot in the head, but his zoning game is still so fly. Oh and I can’t believe they made such a huge deal about trade into ultra being gone… I still land it like every other match lol.
One more thing… what matchups do dudes like to use U2 for? I personally only ever use it against Blanka, Sim, T.Hawk and Honda. Pretty much any blanka ball, MP/HP headbutt or Condor Dive is guaranteed U2 for reasonable damage.
@Death by Nines:
BnB to use is now c.LK>c.LK>c.LP>EX TU. This shit is very reliable and has great damage, doing TKs in the BnB is iffy since they’re not guaranteed to hit properly on all characters, but this combo does, and depending on character swap c.LP with c.MP for extra dmg. Better than angry scar TU in the combo since this does more damage.
You can rushdown with Sagat, just forget about repeated knees, max 2 in a blockstring, dude is still great in that aspect.
U2 is great for shotos as well, Akuma air fireball? U2. Ryu or Ken hadouken? U2. Sagat mirror? U2. Chun-Li? U2 her stupid jump/kikoken. It’s also very useful as an anti-air, it can hit outside your TU range, for full dmg, better than U1 in that aspect.
Ive been using c.hp and st.mk to push opponents back both stuff alot of moves and c.hp has really good damage if it connects.
Alright got some of the AS shit down. Cr.lk cr.mp AS cr.lp TU.Hk as Hk/ cr mp. crmk AS cr.lp. Thing is though I dont really see a point to this id rather just do the EX TU as its wayyyyyyyyyyyy easier to confirm and pretty much does the same damage. AS is a double edged sword for me at the moment because , while the combos are cool and such , its just a gimmick to charge an extra EX bar for O sagat damage really.Also one thing that concerns me is that at certain points in the match I cant concentrate on zoning for example or things i used to on vanilla because I have to take into account AS and when im going to use it and if ive used it etc etc. Adds another element to your mind games which makes it harder to stay on track IMO.
Not really feeling the TK changes at all. Sagat is still a beast but they have essentially ruined his amazing fun design. st.lk is a DEAD normal from the max range, extra recovery on low TS, damage nerf on tigerknee is straight up hilarious , added frames of recovery was not needed.Tu damage im not too fussed about even if 100 is a little lacking.No but really the TK damage is laughable. Capcom took it a step too far for the scrubs this time. Hes still good dont get me wrong , but When I used to play the highest level players in my scene , Sagat felt good but not BROKE good. He is definately beatable , Capcom have acted like he was broken god tier and just went all out.
But yeah PS , im lookin at allllllllll the guys that saw aliounes close hk AS cancel into Ultra (CH), who were crying about him being broken ( “one ex bar ultra” wtf capcom?!") where are you now? you scrubs cant even pull this off in training mode never mind a match. Shit is impossible to hit confirm and i think there are about 2 sagats outside of japan that can even execute it in a game
i’m confused about the last part of your post, are you saying you can perform this? Or your like every other scrub? If you or many other people cant perform AS ultra then that shows how far ahead japan is over you and the equivalent U.S.A. I’m really hoping you sagat players can learn and break the game with AS because right now its just sad playing sagat players.
I’m sure kara TU as a punish wasnt easy at first but give it time and i’m sure i, as a honda player, will feel this to be my worst match up all over again