Sagat and Yamazaki

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
1

Okay, I use skinny characters, so poking against these fat guys are usually hard for a whiff from the air or ground approach.

What I really hate, is Sagat’s c.HP
I also hate Yamazaki’s s.HK

My brother just spams that kick, and I tried everything I could to counter that, but I always end up getting hit. it frustrates me.

both of those 2 basic attacks have hella range, fast recovery time, and etc.
I tried other basics to hit them but theirs is always faster
I want to know what I can do to avoid getting hit by that shit

2

Well most of the time you just got to know the distances, and not get hit by them when playing footsies. The solution for me is not to just outright beat it, but to deal with it so you can position yourself in better places and/or force them to do something outside of those pokes. Its really hard to say what you need to do, having some vids might be easier but just saying those moves beat you is kinda hard to answer.

Personally i throw projectiles at ranges where they cant punish me as easily so they are forced to do something. Discourage them from doing it i guess.

3

It would help if you post your groove and characters (and perhaps your brother’s groove) so the advice can be more in depth.

For Sagat:
-Rc’s will definitely discourage him (or anybody who spams predictable moves)

-Well timed jumps and rolls whenever you feel like your brother is going to mash on c.fp. The key is to pay attention to any sort of rhythm or pattern your brother has when he’s attacking and being attacked.

-footsies as the previous poster said… if he uses c.fp for offensive purposes, stay out of the corner and always try to keep the momentum even if it means you have to use an alpha counter once in a while (assuming your groove allows you.)

-if he uses c.fp for defensive purposes-- learn to vary mix-ups (ie. jump-ins, crossovers, rolls, empty jumps, etc.) Players who tend to mash on c.hp usually aren’t well prepared for mix-ups because they lack other moves and occasionally hope that the rocket punch will empty out most of your life-bar.

*remember that c.fp can be stuffed if you’re close enough, but once you get about 2-3 characters away, it usually out prioritizes most moves.

  • Mashing on a button ‘hoping’ that it beats c.hp will definitely affect your health… You’ve probably learned the moves that don’t beat c.hp, so try to look up the ones that do.

-If he likes to use c.fp twice in a row up-close: continue to block, jump back, jump up, roll, rc, alpha counter, etc, whenever you feel a second c.fp is coming. Just remember to NOT mash on any button hoping to beat out the second c.hp because it will not work.

-If your brother’s sagat is crouching, expect c.hp. Avoid walking up too close because his finger is hovering over Fierce.

For yama:

-jump/crossover more if your brother does not anti-air consistently. yama does have anti-airs, but several characters out prioritize them or atleast trade for more damage.

-rolling can punish s.hk, but don’t use it too much because he will catch on i suppose.

-staying close will force him to stop using s.hk because it does not have high priority when it’s starting up. if s.hk is your only worry against your brother’s yama then just try to stay up close most of the match.

-as the previous poster said, stay out of the kick’s ideal range. Just like sagat’s c.hp, yama’s s.hk has highest priority once it’s fully extended.

-Just an observation from experience, but i’ve found that a solid air-to-ground offensive is a very effective gameplan. if you jump a little more often, your brother might be more hesitant to use s.hk because he will begin to anticipate a jump… just make sure you don’t make your jumps predictable. Don’t fall into a jumping pattern! :slight_smile:

4

I thought about it a little more.

-For your Rock, i remember when i played you that you would stick out Mid Counters alot to discourage me from using that move all the time. Most of Sagat’s far ranged pokes consists of middle attacks so thats a good move to stick out. However you have to train them to think c.hp is a safe move to stick out. Then you can psych them out with your Counters if you can see them coming, which opens you up to mixups. This applies for Yama too.

For Kyo i would psychic DP if you see it coming, else just JD it. Dont always use uppercuts though. If your brother is any good he would start baiting you to do it and you eat a free super. Use his df HK a little more, its better than it looks. Mix it up with s.hk then he might get jump happy for more AA goodness.

I dont think Mai has any definitive options to beat it out, but small jump hks are good to keep him on his toes since its uber fast. Remember to use s.hp for AA jumpins, and s.mk for cross ups, its something i noticed you should have done more.

This. Find patterns, and psych him out.

The previous poster also said something about the startup of Yama’s Hard Kick being not so hot, so if you stay inside Yama in a position where he cannot just throw out that kick without getting poked then thats a good position to be in. In the distance where you can punish s.hk’s startup, and away from his Supers(where i think is also good for AA). I dont believe Yama has much else outside of snake arms to bother you then.

When we play I will use a little more Yama and Sagat to give you some EXP :slight_smile:

5

Honestly, if you’re using K-groove you don’t really need anything fancy like guess counters/dps, just walk forward and tap db for an option select JD, then punish.

6

Going in on a JD can be risky.

I go in with a 75% chance of getting hit, so it’s not so hot. IF I had roll, I could just roll in and grab him, or level 2 super but that’s not the case here…

I use K-Rock, Mai, Kyo

And umm, his pokes are usually a lot faster than mine.
I think I’m timing my pokes wrong though.
I have to see… his pokes always outdo mine.

7

Not really.
You can walk forward a step or two (just within range of their poke) and tap db, if they press a button you’ll most likely JD, if they don’t you can walk forward another step or two and tap db again. That will help you get a feel of when he’s going to stick out pokes and help you decide when/how far to walk forward and how to punish them.

8

This is exactly what i was looking for. thank you for the informative post and keep up the good work!