close fierce timed right trades with DP
no, a close fierce timed right will lose to a dp, dp’s are invincible, if you’re frame trapping someone you’re hitting them before the non-invincible buttons can come out, so it’ll beat a normal button, but a dp should beat it clean
As it should since Frame traps always lose to invul. I tend to use st.LK, being one of the fastest options after the safejump that we have. It’s pretty good so long as they’re not throwing reversal. The plus is the the backthrow safejump tends to leave you at a distance where they don’t attempt to throw you unless, like you said, late techs.
Mixing up between corpse hop and safejumps, I’ve always found is handy. It shows your opponent that you’re not a complete nitwit and you’re willing to test what they can do and that they now know that you know exactly what you’re doing. Which can, in itself, be a bit of a mindgame, because then they have to think “Are they going to safejump? Is that next thing they do on my wakeup safe or just a corpsehop that I can get out of?”
cr.mk xx RCF is a good frame trap to play whenever you have the appropriate range and enough charge, and after a safe jump you have them both.
If timed correctly you can even call it an option select frame trap (which we usually call a pseudo blockstring). as it combos on hit and frame traps on block
the beauty is that when following a safe jump it will
focus 1 - 2 - 3 , missed high low block, block abandon, wake up jump, reversal crouch tech,reversal grab, late grab, all regular moves
beats them clean and combo from it into another frame trap or a FAC FDC followup
4+ frame invincible reversals
heavily punishable
late crouch tech, late move, proper high low block.
leave you safe on block, with him having less health maintained stun and much less ground and you having more meter than before.
focus backdash
outpace leaving you with frame adv at long poking distance
wake up backdash
some gets beaten , some gets reset, some gets outpaced leaving you with frame adv at long poking distance
wake up invincible dodges
they get outpaced sometimes enough to be punishable with a reactive cr.HK, cr.mk or EX FBA.
late invincible, 3- frame invincible reversals, long meaty ground invincible reversals ( usually invincible command grabs and a bunch of others)
you get punched in the face
so they really lack options already as outside of blocking EVERYTHING THEY CAN DO can be punished on reaction if you empty jump and sometimes you can punish heavily.
now that is the base
to refine it
1 - If the other guy has a annoying backdash you can use cr.lk instead of cr.mk and OS slide (CH if it is slow) after the cancelling input of L.RCF, ( or if you feel it lose the slide and OS EX.FBJ - U1 -U2 instead after the RCF cancelling input and nail that backdash for good)
2 - If the other guy blocks a lot you want to mind fuck him a little you can replace your frame trap with a jb.HP frame trap he could still have upper body ghost hitbox cause he is just crounching for the low he expects, just make sure he cannot ultra/juggle you on reaction.
Then we need to go character specific to go more indepth.
Dude you just costed me a few games with this “st. lk after safe jump” crap…I keep getting the close st lk move that links directly to a delivery of wup ass from ryu…I hate UUUU…
Since this seems to be the only constructive forum going since the first patch draft is out i think ill try to put in a little 2c. Now you guys are the frame data master and I have a hobby of convincing myself that shit works so Prove me wrong and ill go cry then come right back.
For Ryu a “safe jump” i use is ex fba hold back and as soon as you see vega twich to start stepping back immediately tap St. Lp then immediately J. Mp. Now it seems this is the perfect range where the tip of vega’s claw reaches ryu but ryu cant reach him so If he shoryuken it goes through and if he blocks then i do my stabedy satbs mixups. On the negative side of this ryu cr. mk beats it out…but shhhhh its a secret…lol
here is a quick link to what im trying to abuse…that little red zone in-front his claw: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a27/Graviiga/Vega Hitboxes/jmp.jpg
I was trying the cr. mp thing but it seems a bit too strict vs shoto’s but then i guess the risk is in our favor since we get to land combos. Im not a fan of corpse hop and peeps just blocking my safe jumps so i use the cross up FBA when i get a chance. Most of the time its EX FBA>Izuna>hold down untill vega ducks then do slide>here I have the upperhand where I can either Back throw (to start over mixups), Meaty Hp (connects easily to ex RCF here), or Cross up FBA (you have to do the slide a tad bit earlier for the cross up so blocking the FBA is a bit ambiguous). THis is one of my fav mixups since 2/3 punishes tech and 2/3 punishes block which leaves shoryukens and ooohhhh YEAHHHH im waiting for you to do it bitch. Im not going further since i just realized this is safe jump forum and not meaty.
could you guys post some other meaty setups for st. lk?
yeah um… i personally never use sLK as anything more than a poke, and poking as less than near max cLP range is kinda… well… bad lol.
It’s 12:30am so i’m not testing out your safe jump set up. If it works it works. stick with it if it works.
I rarely use meaty sLK’s just because the damage potential is so low. I use it against blanka (yeah i really pick on the guy lol) and link it to standing HK but that’s about it.
fst.lk is a good meaty. it probably is our safest meaty in most matchups. damage potential is not that low
with some training you can pull fst.lk >> cr.mp reliably and that is 110 I 'd take that all day already as it is meter free.
on some character syou can also fst.lk >> fst.HK which is 160 lots of stun and good meter.
they can be OS’ed with slide to beat backdashes and that alone forces most people in the cast to resort to
block low loses to overhead and kara grab
block high loses to meaty cr.mk and karagrab
perform the only reversal that works (when there is any ) heavily punishable, and sometimes they don’t even have that option.
which basically bottlenecks their game drasticly.
on a fair bunch of characters you can meaty st.lk > cr.lp > cr.mp > EXFBJ with only 1 single frame link and the damage potential becomes very decent.
and you can still OS slide.
cherry on the cake, these meaties are unpredictable and technically unpunishable on whiff. so it enables you to practically start footsies before the guy can wake up by whiffing a st.lk through their wake up they might be inclided to do something twitch to react and punish your whiffed fst.lk, hopefully something that you will be able to punish yourself.
having a tool to perform safely a blockstring on people’s wakeup is far from negligeable.
and cr.lp and cr.lk are nowhere nearly as safe as fst.lk as a meaty and don’t offer much greater damage potential.
I have literally seen my character with his knee right in the middle of active frames during ultra freeze close up then by the time they connected I was back in block. you may not trick tokido into wasting his ultra into a fst.lk meaty but 95% of players have no idea their ultra won’t work on fst.lk.
now you can get a lot more damage from a meaty jump in or a meaty cls.hp but people see you coming a mile away and you can’t abuse these tools, you can abuse the hell of fst.lk.
i said that…
I’d rather use cMK as a meaty because then you can actually have a charge, plus…
counterhit cMK cMK, cMP for 227 is a much better option. It has the same advantage (+2) plus you have a charge… plus the cMK has far better range on top of more damage and stun.
but normally i don’t even do that
non-corpse hopping meaty is usually sHP (cMPxx EX FBA if meter, sHP, sHK on characters it works on reliably or sHP, cLP, cMP if no meter.)
yeah it has a slow startup but then again i don’t exactly meaty from standing very often anyway. I’m either going for a jump in or a corpse hop 90% of the time
but that’s just me. I tend to really only utilize the best options unless i have a specific reason not to.
I Cost you a game?
You chose to use it at the advice of others. Don’t blame people for your losses, different safejumps give different results with different characters.
Learn how to use it properly before blaming me for your losses.
Afterall, that can’t be the only fricken reason you lost. Kinda thought logic would dictate for you to NOT press a button after safejump on someone who can LOL3-frameINVULReversal you.
Jeez.
I still hate u…Did any one check the safe jump???
Cute. Yup, it’s people like you that are the reason that I outright refuse to continue my articles or actually contributing anything beyond trolling nonsense to this forum.
wait… you troll?
when?
… i spent a good 10 minutes trying to do it the way you said until i realized you were talking about vega twitching not ryu,…
it loses to a frame perfect sweep, cMK and reversal EX DP…
it can also be focused and backdashed.
i did find 2 things interesting tho.
when i set the dummy to do the safe jump i walked forward with ryu to run into the EX FBA… and he blocked it… holding forward…
then i tried to hold back to see if it was a crossover… and either way it gets blocked. so unless you’re doing it on reaction to a button press… if you do ANY point blank range EX FBA it gets blocked…
the other interesting thing was that Ryu’s super actually went under the safe jump.
i’d still call this a “safish” jump because they can beat you but need perfect timing or have to spend meter.
This actually is more effective against vega than ryu. Vega can do U1 and backflip but that’s it.
and for some dumb reason it doesnt work against E ryu
st. lk recovers in 7 frames as opposed to c. mk’s 9, so st. lk can meaty someone and block a reversal attempt
in general, it’s 4 frames lighter, which isn’t much (hence c. mk is amazing), but it’s much safer and st. lk definitely has a longer range than c. lp does.
it’s always smart because it has a great hitbox too, which generally supports c. mk because it can hit snipe moves like rose’s st. mk that beat lows really easily.
st. lk is definitely one of vega’s best moves and while c. mk rarely gets you into trouble st. lk is even less likely to
so never a bad idea
Jozhear, great contribution man, thanks a lot.
I also wanted to ask what exactly are Vega’s OS’s and how do I do them (I’m fairly noobish when it comes to OS’s)
Like the sweep to punish backdashes and such…
Joz, how hard did you stare at the numbers? Im being serious, your on a whole nother level.
BTW, does anybody do the ambiguous corpse hops that Alex told us about, or is that what you are talking about Joz? Ive used them on occasion, should use them more, but they are pretty good. If reversals didn’t auto correct they would be so good.
link to ambiguous corpsehopping?
I do some ambiguous ones. using PoM to corpse hop makes it pretty tricky
ill have to look for it, but after say a cosmic heel you walk to a set position where 1/6 of a training stage block more you end up being behind them, or vice versa remain in front of them.
he had very specific details to it as well. Man Alex posted some really really good shit.
nope don’t know it and don’t use it. but i am definitely interested
http://www.youtube.com/user/AlexKamisama100#p/u/6/4snt5Tys1S8
like first 3 clips show it, except he changed it in a way where you time it on wake up to cross them up ambiguously.