Safe Jump / Option Select Guide

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
21

cammy is normal wakeup time, whiff with c. mp then jump

trust me, i thought sagat and cammy got up later and ibuki fei long got up earlier etc etc…i was wrong

one of my friends can read japanese (so can i) way better than me so he just looks at the japanese wiki and this is where all of this info came from, and it all checks out

by the way

the c. mk speed buff has some great implications

since c. mp = 21 frames and jumping is 4+ 34 = you hit on the 59th frame

with that number i figured well, how can i do other stuff?

after ex fba knockdown,

dash = 20 frames
cosmic heel = 32 frames

so i need a meaty to hit on the 7th frame.

What move? simple - c. mk, 5 frame start up, 3 active frames, 9 recovery

so the 2nd active frame is that 7th frame i need.

So if you use that set up and hit a meaty c. mk on the second active frame, you are +6. meaning…

c. mk, c. mk, c. mp works. EX FBA combos are situational. i’m sure there are big characters you can do c. mk, c. mk, c. fp, and there, you’re looking at 240 damage, which is pretty huge for no meter.

Even better, against charactres that get up 1 frame slower you are +7 on hit and +4 on block. which is intense. you can combo into st. mp for a 160 damage combo or the usual stuff as a 2 frame link - either way you’re more likely to score a succesful meaty on these characters than others. something like that will hurt sagat very badly since all the likely stuff will work on him.

Another meaty -

After a forward throw knockdown, dash, st. lk.

i noticed that if you dash forward and do a c. lp on characters who get up normally, it won’t connect. this means that a succesful meaty has to hit after the 5th frame since that is when c. lp’s active frames are up.

in this case, we look again at st. lk which has an active frame during 6th frame. so, you dash up, st. lk and you are now +6 on hit and +3 on block. this also means a combo, st. lk, c. mk, c. mp ex fba. won’t hit some characters.

against the characters that get up 1 frame slower like vega, blanka, sagat, dhalsim, once agai6 on go for the c. mk. you’re at +6 on hit again since c. mk has an active frame during the 7th frame.

more meaties like this can arise. i’m trying to figure out frame data on scarlet terror techable knockdowns so you can safe jump the quick rise, whiff something, then safe jump the knockdown they didn’t tech as well. need more time in the lab for that!

22

Thanks for the info Joz, and another thanks for your replays on XBL. I’ve read a fair amount on footsies but your Claw vs Blanka on 8-25 demonstrated them so well watching it a few times alone has really amped my game.

23

oh you mean watching like a replay from ranked?

Yep i just try to think about everything.

I’m trying to get my recording stuff all going - i have a lot recorded but just keep forgetting to download the damn video director, so i can edit them n upload.

I’ll have LOTS of good vega videos as soon as i get my act together.

24

It is. I played a Guile for about an hour last night and kept doing it, every flashkick he did got blocked.

25

yeah… someone give me a good reason to give up my strong corpse hopping mix up for a safe jump… so i can actually have motivation for learning these.

26

Because esp. Guile has a wide ass box around him and he is one of those characters, who if you are just frames to slow with your corpse hop, you will land in front of him and not behind.

27

hmmmm never really noticed. The only people i have a prob with on corpse hopping is Gief and Hawk. and as long as i plant the seed mf me mostly using jump back fierce i rarely get thrown.

I don’t remember having probs doing it against Guile tho. I usually do that to force FK because of changing directions and jump back fierce beats FK all day.

28

Wtf? I think I knew that at some point… How could I forget?

29

don’t give up cosmic heel corpsehops. some people are smart enough to recognize safe jumps (any good player really) and won’t do anything. then at this point you’re constnatly gambling with the frame trap and it might be something he can manage well.

safe jumps are great to feel out your opponent. but they get incredibly derivative when it’s all you use.

there are still lots of great cosmic heel mixups out there, which i have been posting in this thread also. but it’s smart to learn how to safe jump because, it is safe. unlike cosmic heel corpsehops

30

yeah… i havnt spent the time to learn any safe jump other than backthrow jMP. Mainly because every other situation i could safe jump… i could corpse hop, and if i needed safety i’d just corpse hop late tech.

31

mmmmm but corpsehop late tech still isn’t safe.

that basically means you’re sacrificing offensive options in fear, basically, of reprisal

a safe jump gives you both - +11 on block and a guarantee that reversals are punishable.

late teching brings a bunch of different variables into play, but generally, you don’t have near as much frame advantage because you’re not doing meaties. not to mention there’s still stuff that can beat you like mash jab or late throw. it’s true that you’ll beat reversals if you time your late tech properly and also tech throws / maybe get +2 on a blocked c. mk or something but that’s still nothing compared to safe jumps.

like i said, if you review my post i have meaty setup off of fthrow and EX FBA. i generally save legitimate “corpsehop” mixups, like legit ambiguous mixups, for scarlet terror knockdowns cause it’s much more ambiguous.

32

It doesn’t hurt to mix up between safe jumps and CH mixups is the point I was making >.<

33

ST situiations are my crossunder/fake crossunder set ups. not enough time to CH over after that but you CAN POM over/POM fake over

I agree Pai but i also dont see how it helps either.

Though i am willing to be educated.

34

CH corpse hops after an ST are far more ambiguous than slide under mixups

same with pom

CH recovers faster, that’s what you want. something that gets to the other side, recovers quick, and then a fast move to nail the mixup.

if you do something like PoM , they have a lot more time to react. same with slide. CH has 14 frames of recovery, a few of which are in the air which still allows you to cross over your opponent during that time. so you recover with a few frames and do a close fierce, it’s very difficult to react to and they will often be meaty.

it helps because, like i said. CH mixups aren’t guaranteed to leave you at +11. ch mixups leave you at +? because a safe jump is a guarantee, a meaty on the ground is not.

think about it.

If you safe jump someone,

they can’t tech
they can’t reversal
they can’t backdsah if you OS

they have to sit there and block it - HAVE TO

if you do a late tech then you’re not meaty, you don’t have frame advantage. all you’re doing is just kind of thowing something out there hoping to get a low hit for a couple frames advantage - nothing compared to +11 or +14 on hit

there’s nothing wrong with a late tech, but it’s not a good offensive option, it’s not really oki

it’s sort of passive aggression

safe jump provides you with aggression AND safety

and you can find MEATY setups for a low c. mk which BEAT a throw, not tech it. in that case you’re only worried about reversals and they should be the ones worried about using reversals against you

but it’s always good to mix it up… like i said, i know of plenty of people who will willingly block my safe jumps and then just ex psycho or late tech after and it’s hard to open up. but another mixup can take away a charge or disorient someone who might otherwise not get hit. a great defender will make you work for any damage but as a vega you should be a great defender as well and then you’re playing street fighter and it’s a sick footsie battle, so this stuff is generally less important anyways

but mixing it up is whats most important, more options is unequivocally better than less

35

I dont crossunder with slide… I crossunder with LP version RCF, because he completely disappears from the screen and the tiing determines what side he’s on. it’s extremely ambiguous. and it builds meter.

I dunno tho. Safe jumps seem… so scrub killer-like. Yeah they have to block, but if they block how can you mix up after?

When i refer to corpse hop block. I’m usually referring to already having gotten a counterhit cMKxx EX FBA, a throw, a jump back fierce or neutral jump, and because most reversals will beat all those options chances are high that if they havnt done it 3 times in a row, they are going to do it on the 4th,

36

if they block your safe jump then frame trap them after… that’s your mixup, that’s why you safe jump people with vega. vega’s frame traps are exceptional.

LP RCF builds 20 meter, which is negligible, and that’s not a very ambiguous mixup. you don’t really disappear from the screen really

the other thing is, i’m almost positive that’s not a meaty after you hit them with the rcf

backdash = 22 frames + 38 frames of your jump = they are knocked down for 60 frames. you hit them on the 61st.

assuming you perfectly time an LP RCF, which i know is impossible becuase it’s impossible to charge for a second after only connecting with an ST, then you that would be 51 frames, which means your close fierce can hit on the second frame.

so then you’re delaying your RCF. you delay that, you frame trap options are probably c. mk or faster, which means you’re now sacrificing damage.

not to mention, LP RCF has 22 frames of recovery, that’s 8 more than cosmic heel, and none of them are airborne so none of them are actually spent crossing over the opponent.

cosmic heel is ambiguous cause only 4 of those frames are when you are on the ground and hence set on what side you’re on. Though the recovery is 10+4, the first 10 are airborne… you’re not hitting them, but you can still corpsehop them.

it gives them much less time to react, so the mixup is better. not to mention you can find a simple mixup for a meaty with a crossover CH, which i can actually figure out right now

now that that’s over… again, you’re worried about a reversal so you can mix someone up right?

ok.

with a safe jump, the only downside is that they know they can’t reversal, so a smart opponent? they’re not gonna do it.

the upside? Boom, you’re at +11 after your safe jump. Frame trap them. THAT is why you safe jump people. You leave them with a 25/25/25/25, more or less. They can block, reversal, backdash, or tech the throw. IF they backdash, they’re gonna get hit if you’re option selecting a sweep (ideal) or you just use close fierce. Your maximum reward is like, 400 damage if you do close fierce ex roll. Theirs is dependant on the character, but it usually just amounts to you getting knocked down. Either way, risk reward here is heavily in your favor in most of your matchups, depending on how much you value other characters’ rushdown.

If you’re gonna go for those cosmic heel mixups, you DO NOT HAVE a GUARANTEED FRAME TRAP, you just have mindgames. Which is totally different from pressing the advantage and forcing bad decisions. You’re just trying to out wit or catch your opponent off guard, whereas a safe jump is exactly that, it’s totally safe, and it’s a situation where you instantly create an advantage. Knocking someone down and NOT hitting them with a meaty? not an advantage.

no matter what, if you do cosmic heel stuff, the best you can get is +4 on block. that’s still great, but it’s not +11. not to mention, the stuff that gives you less frame advantage here is susceptible to the stuff safe jumps officially shut down.

so if you do cosmic heel mixups, they are more likely to commit to a reversal. That’s both a good and a bad. Good because, if you know it’s going to happen (and this is WHY i say using both is key as opposed to just one), you can bait it and deal more damage. Bad because, you’re not safe jumping them. your options if they defend succesfully against your meaty are worse then if they block a safe jump.

That’s why I say try both and that safe jumps are great for feeling out your opponent. you can learn a lot by studying how your opponent reacts to getting safe jumped. if they reversal? sweet. why would you not try safe jumping them again. if your frame trap works? again, do another safe jump. maybe try timing it differently to see how they react again. if it doesn’t work? then maybe you might try again, but you might try a different scenario to see how they react - either way, you absolutely CAN NOT get more safe than a safe jump. sitting there and blocking might be more safe, but guess what? you’re not doing anything.

so do both. but safe jumps are better.

37

@Joz

What frame traps would you do after a safe jump then?

38

just FYI but i havnt finish reading your post but i’m responding before i forget.

I’m not doing a meaty RCF
I’m using the camera angle as they fly into the air to “hide” vega. I RCF under them. It’s VERY ambiguous. and yeah 20 meter isnt a lot but it’s better than a slide that gives zero or a whiffed/blocked normal that also gives you zero meter, AND it still sets up corpse hop mix ups. (only 1 though cause the knockdown is techable)…

ok back to reading post

OK i get it now. I didnt see the mix up options after a safe jump and as far as i could tell ending up neutral from no mixup wasnt better than ending up neutral from a mix up

39

Many thanks for this, Jozhear.

40

close fierce all day or c. mk, or walk back st. lk, or c. lp. just depends on how you think your opponent is pressing buttons