Ok, so using low short wisely is important. Could you elaborate further on how and when to use low short?
Good places to tap on low short would be if you’re in the max range of vega’s slide (so he can’t pressure you at max distance and cuz max distance slide is pretty safe when blocked) and just out of his low strong range. As for when you should tap, the best way I could describe it is use it like a parry in 3s. When you KNOW a poke is coming because either vega needs to keep the pressure on you or is looking to knock you down.
What I try to look for is the vega player adjusting position. This is usually a good time to hit a low short. It’s good because even a whiff will cause a block animation in ST (you stop vega from walking back) and sometimes vegas will like to surprise you with a random slide when they are adjusting position since it’s safer than a jump.
What makes this hard for Ryu/Ken is because even though low short can take away some of his ground game, it gets countered by stand fierce and you still have to watch for well-setup jumpins. So being able to DP on reaction to a jump helps, but watch out for stand fierce. Especially when vega is advancing towards you from outside stand fierce range. There he can pick to either stand fierce, jump or slide and you have to guess, so the best thing to do in this case is block.
It’s a hard match but if you learn how to use low short it makes it a bit easier. I hope that helps.
That’s a nice tip about cr. short versus Vega slide and cr. strong, but what options does Ryu have to stuff st.forward from him on anticipation, outside of srks of course?
Ok, I realize that this is a super scrubby question, but can someone go into more detail about Ryu’s Hadoken/Shoryuken trap game. I mean in theory I understand the basic concept, which has been briefly touched upon here
and in the Wiki
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"If a character jumps over a Hadouken from a distance, out of the range of Ryu’s Shoryuken, he can still walk forward and force them to land on a cr.hk. They cannot block this when timed correctly, and it will knock them down.
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Zoning
Ryu’s ideal positioning against most characters is at the very end of their jump arc - this gives him the maximum amount of time to recover from a Hadouken, while still being in range to hit them with a Shoryuken if they try to jump."
But I believe this to be more complex than simply measuring their jump arc. For instance:
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How do Jab/Medium/Fierce fireball recovery times factor into timing and distance? Which takes the greatest/shortest recovery?
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How do people’s jump arcs factor into this? (i.o.w., some people have floaty jump arcs like Chun and Claw, others have lower jump arcs (i.e. Boxer maybe? I’m not sure on this), could someone talk about people’s different jump arcs regarding this fireball/DP game?
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Taking # 2 into account, could someone talk about the distance where Ryu can walk up after a person jumps over a fireball and sweep them, while also considering the different type of air attacks a person could do to counter such an attempt (e.g. maybe Guile’s j. mk, though I dont know if this will actually beat out Ryu’s c. RH at the right distance?).
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any other advise regarding this FB/DP game would be appreciated
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I don’t have the exact frame data with me. But jab fireball has least recovery, through to fierce fireball with the most.
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Jump arcs do factor into your spacing, but at the same time, having a nice and high jump arc (Chun, for example), is somewhat mitigated by her j+forward kick, which has awesome priority and can stuff or trade with AA’s. Same deal with Blanka with his j+short.
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Learning your fireball spacing for each matchup is of paramount importance for Ryu. After all, aside from random rushdown/mixup tactics (and footsies), his entire game is based around fireballing at the correct distance**(s)**. You might want to keep strong and fierce fireballs to a minimum against, say, Ken; as you want to keep fairly close. OTOH, minimise jab fireballs and stick to strong and fierce against Honda. Key part of the fireballing game is, obviously, to anticipate a jump-in. Most lower level players will feel a strong urge to jump-in after blocking two fireballs (e.g., jab->fierce, or strong->fierce). That’s where the sweep comes in. But better players will be much less predictable than that, and only jump at the optimum (close) distance after correctly anticipating a fireball.
//EDIT: I forgot to mention there’s two sides to Ryu’s fireballing game, the corner fireball trap, and the normal fireballing, and you need to master both. Definitely watch Daigo for the corner fireball trapping. Basically just study and copy his hadouken technique. Versus Guile, Deejay, Dictator and a bunch of other mainly charge characters, you can do jab->jab->jab->fierce, wait to see what they do (split second), resume with jab->strong or jab->fierce. There are many variations to this… you can try jab->jab->jab, pause (they might jump), then jab fireball as they land, which resets the trap. Or if they jump, try walking forward and locking them down with sweep->fireball (a technique Daigo uses alot). Another possibility is jab->fierce->jab->fierce (not as good, IMO).
General tips: Watch Daigo’s Ryu. He plays all the major (i.e., common) matchups almost perfectly. He has, probably, the best fireball trap game – once you’re in the corner, chances of survival diminish rapidly. Watch ShootingD’s Ryu for more of the uncommon matchups. There are many examples of these guys and other good Ryu players on YouTube. Maybe we can do like a play-by-play breakdown of a few Daigo Ryu matches. It’s quite useful to be able to see all the techniques used in practice (and you do miss a lot if you watch a vid just once, and purely for enjoyment at that).
That sounds good. Anything and everything you recommend/comment on will be appreciated
Can someone confirm that O. Ryu’s fireballs are faster, and he has a quicker release and recovery then new Ryu?
In the AE hyper thread there is a big discussion on that (frames & etc). Check it out.
^^^ So in ST i assume n.ryu is better cuz he has overhead n super right? Does o.ryu have any advantages over n.ryu?
N.Ryu just basically does better in every match-up than O.Ryu does. So even if O.Ryu has some kind of advantages N.Ryu just has more overall.
Yea n.ryu also has a stronger mixup game.
What’s the proper use of J. MP x2?
I saw someone do j. mp x2 and then short air hurricane, land short hurricane, and it built meter, but I can’t seem to get the air hurricane to come out after j. mp… (I know it isn’t supposed to hit, just build meter).
Were you cancelling the jump MP into the air hurricane? Or were you trying to do them as two separate moves?
I didn’t know it was a cancel? I just saw someone do it at someone’s house and assumed it was two moves.
You can cancel into the air hurricane off the first hit of the jump strong.
IIRC O.Ryu is kind of like O.Ken. Faster fireball recovery, full invinc DP, different normals.
Yeah, you gotta cancel it. You can only do one attack while you’re in the air. Cancelling gets around that.
You can also do the mp air juggle into super.
are there any solid reversal timing tricks to counter tick 360 characters?
My DP input speed is pretty damn fast but I find it quite tricky to do a quick srk input based on variable, multiple tick 360 attempts so I’ve been trying to cheat the game with dumb shit. If you ask me to whip out an srk as fast as possible, thats not a problem. My problem is visually reacting quick enough to all the variable tick 360 attempts, then inputting my DP asap.
I want to know what old school vets use to reversal a tick 360.
I know about the piano but I don’t like the fact that mp\fp DP’s have horrible recovery. I’ve tried doing srk, lp, lp, lp to cause the same affect but I’m not sure thats even working properly can anyone confirm that method?
I’ve also tried the empty srk inputs repeatedly. Just sitting there when I’m in a tick position and doing the joystick inputs. When I see a break in the timing, I’ll try to reversal it like that.
can a properly timed throw beat 360’s based on the proper ranges?
Do a shoryuken with three buttons to increase your chances of revesal, piano the punch buttons. Also you can reverse 360’s using short hurricane kick and it’s alot easier than DP’s :).