If the enemy is on top of you, it is important to keep close RH and fierce in mind. The stuff about DPs is you often don’t have time, or you need to walk up before doing it. Valle is known for his zoning mixed with walking up and doing a DP just before the enemy lands from a jump in, for instance. It has a chance of failure, though, even if you input it perfectly.
You don’t have to leave it in neutral: you have to not input the first direction needed for the motion in question. So, for a DP, you increase your chances by staying at least 6 frames in any direction but → (in P1 side) before performing the motion. However, 270° commands take any main direction, so it can be tricky. For example, let’s assume you are P1, you are near the P2 corner, and the enemy is cornered. You want to steer the SPD to the P2 corner, to do a throw loop. But in order to do so, you need to end the 270° motion in either , →, or , which is hard if you leave crouch-block (), since you’d need to leave that direction directly into neutral, not leaving neither ← or ↓ micro-switches activated alone before that. If you manage to do so, then you can do, e.g., →()↓()←()↑:arrow_upper_right:+P (directions in parenthesis are not needed) and steer the throw correctly. However, it is safer to do ←()↓()→()↑, which yields the less appropriate steering, giving the enemy more chances of escaping the loop.
As for HDR, it is possible that Sirlin himself does not know how exactly it works in ST and how it has changed in HDR. We surely don’t know how it works in HDR. Pasky has elucidated the behavior in ST not too long ago, at least to western audiences. The Japanese knew how it worked in Hyper SF2 AE, which is similar to ST, so they probably knew that it wasn’t really random, but it does have an issue, which shows when you try walking DPs, but also when doing ticks into 270° command throws.
I always walk forward DP thinking the frame timer works backwards to see if a move is available to execute (and times from the release from the first direction)
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Maybe ive been failing a lot more DPs than i should because of this… Gotta test this for myself and then change how i execute DPs…
Forgive me if this has been brought up, but does Ryu’s j.MP have some sort of weird property that lets you recover from a jump faster than normal? I’ve always wondered why Ryu’s j.MP wiff into throw works so well and how hard it is to counter.
Nope. Recovery is the same. It’s just a surprise tactic that catches some players off-guard, since the majority of players tend to expect to block a jump attack whenever they see their opponents take to the skies.
It’s very easy to counter. Simply anti-air him from the ground, or if it’s too late for that, just throw him as he lands. You typically don’t want to do a jump anti-air, since his j.strong juggles have very good air-to-air priority.
It’s weird, it seems incredibly hard to land j.MP on a grounded opponent (or incredibly rare, I never see it anyway) so I usually see it coming, but I never seem to get the counter throw or I get thrown during my counter anti-air.
It’s not really used for an air-to-ground attack. Ryu has better options for that. The only notable exception is whenever Ryu safe-jumps a knocked down Gief, because a properly timed j.strong will beat his reversal lariat clean, and can also hit a crouching Gief.
Your anti-air is supposed to happen well before he lands. Ryu’s j.mp pretty much loses to every standard anti-air in the game except for jumping ones, so it sounds like it’s primarily a timing issue on your end.
This is actually not correct. Aerial strong punch misses a crouching Zangief too, which creates an option: it stuffs lariats better than the safest, textbook option, which would be jumping jab, but if he sees it coming, he will crouch and press strong or fierce punches for the stomach grab, which leaves him dangerously close to you after you escape it.
The knocked down Gief options are:
[list][]jab punch: it demands correct timing and positioning, but beats anything Zangief has if done properly. It needs to be timed as a safe jump, or you risk eating sac-throws; and from the proper range, or you eat a lariat.
[]strong punch: it whiffs crouching Gief, but it can hit lariats clean and easy, even for a 2-hit combo if you time it right. It also has longer blockstun and it is its nature that it hits late, thus making it easier to combo after it. However, it can be countered, guaranteed, by crouching and throwing.
[]fierce punch: will stuff anti-air crounching punches and also leave him vulnerable for a sweep (2-hit combo, high stun). If he lariats, it will whiff and Ryu can sweep the lariat, so you can often commit to the sweep for some sort of option select. You can also get close to him, then jump away with fierce punch to punish baited SPDs.
[]Tatsu: knocks him down, but it’s pretty dangerous and you have to guess if he will stand or crouch. The advantages if that if it connects, then he will be caught into a longer blockstun animation and there’s almost no risk of getting grabbed.
[]cross-up RH: this will give you the round if it connects and you time the combo right (cr.strong, cr.forward xx hadouken). But if he gets the reversal lariat, you will be very lucky to even escape with just one SPD worth of lost vitality.
[/list]
*at least compared to Ryu’s options, which have been nerfed in terms of stun damage when compared to most other characters. Most the stun comes from the sweep.
I know what stud is talking about, cuz I use the whiffed jump Strong into throw tactic, not a lot, but it has its uses, mostly against Ken/Ryu players and Hawk/Honda matches. It’s a useful tactic against Honda players that like to jump a lot, like mad possum, cuz it’s a great anti air. But if I jump at Honda and he stays on the ground, I will sometimes switch to Roundhouse, but sometimes I will time the jump Strong late, not so late that he blocks it, but just late enough that it still whiffs, and then the throw follows. It works really well against Hawk too for some reason.
My advice to you stud is, the same as eltrouble, to treat this tactic like all other whiffed jump attack into throw tactics. Either anti air them fast (which is difficult), or throw them as soon as they land. I treat every jumpin as if it’s going to be empty, and I time a Fierce to throw them as soon as they land. That way if it’s not empty, I block. No risk, and some reward with this counter tactic, depending if you get the throw or not. It works sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t work, but at least it’s somewhat of a counter.
Yeah, I noticed it too. But too many Ryu players overuse it and get predictable with it. Which makes people better at countering it, so I try not to use it too much. Just like you sometimes do an empty jump with Hawk into Super Typhoon, it works best as an unpredictable, surprise attack LOL.
Question regarding Ryu’s j. fierce vs j. RH.
I don’t think there is frame data for that but from my experience and also watching tons of videos, I believe j. fierce either has a longer hit stun or it has some magical properties that allow it to connect better than j. RH.
For example, j fierce, s. fierce xx fb is easier to connect than j rh, s. fierce xx fb.
Also look at this match, I’m sure that if he used j. rh it won’t connect with cr. rh. Thoughts?
It’s easier because you don’t have to move fingers/hands around. Same reason why jumping jab into standing jab into jab shoryuken is much easier than, say, jumping fierce into standing jab into fierce shoryuken (guaranteed on fat characters).
, →, or 
, which is hard if you leave crouch-block (
), since you’d need to leave that direction directly into neutral, not leaving neither ← or ↓ micro-switches activated alone before that. If you manage to do so, then you can do, e.g., →(
)↑:arrow_upper_right:+P (directions in parenthesis are not needed) and steer the throw correctly. However, it is safer to do ←(