Probably pointless unless it linked into meterless DP. Might as well just do raw EX.
Tatsu recovery was changed? Can we still meaty in all situations except after throw?
At first glance I don’t think we can, but ocean machine on the front page said he could in the hacked beta so I’m not sure. I would have thought the extra landing frames would rule out the axe kick.
Light tatsu dash whiff st.jab should still work though.
It definitely worked on H tatsu. I could even do a meaty st. HK after that and CC jabs on wake-up.
I literally read nothing but nerfs…nerfs mainly. Why add 1 extra frame on lp Hadouken? In a SF game where the projectile game is easily the worse besides SF3 where it was Gutter-Tier level. Remember that from HF to ST, their was a 1 frame addition to the fireball and that made a significant difference on how ST. Ryu could utilize his fireball game vs his CE/HF counterpart who had a superior fireball game due to having one less frame.
Yes, I see the 1 less frame for hp. Hadouken, but that’s not relevant to me since lp Hadouken will be used more than anything else. I’m LoLing at being able to throw during FP Shoryuken at 1-3F…honestly, wow. Get ready to adjust your Shoryuken AA timing, because we can’t use it at the last moments anymore because of potential trade, or losing, that’s a fact unless you’re using Ex of course. 100% not a fan of the DP nerfs, which is still stupid. If people seriously don’t believe this is a significant change across the board…keep your eyes on Season 2.
The j. mk hitbox nerf was unnecessary if Ryu was already going to receive the j.lp nerf. Overhead being way more punishable on block…
Solar Plexus being +8 on hit instead of +6 originally is most likely the reasons why we’re seeing the combo setups that been posted about Ryu.
Parry having a longer whiff punish to me makes no sense since 29 frames was enough, but they pushed it to 32 frames now, which is big. It gives more meter now, so I guess that’s the trade off? However I’d rather have the S1 parry if that was the case imo.
Air Tatsu allowing juggles into Shinkuu is supposedly a buff, but considering that you can’t even cross up with it in V, I’m curious as to it’s effectiveness. So unless I see some Top-Tier uses for this, I’m not excited about this. To me, it almost feels like the supposed buff they made with Ryu in SFIV pertaining to the j.mp to allows more “juggles” which were completely irrelevant in the actual competitive play. So once again, people are going to have to prove that it’s a good buff with reliable uses or it’s just going into the useless bin for me.
Ex Hadouken getting buffed on block is nice.
Shinkuu less pushback on block so that it’s more susceptible to punish.
If I have to talk theory fighting right now without even having the chance to test it, Ryu looks like he got nothing but nerfs, with some slight buffs in certain aspects although some imo seemed pointless.
Honestly, until I get some free time to actually test these changes than I don’t want to jump the gun.
Ryu will be fine IMO
He is worse, but his frametraps and neutral are better now, st.jab will be useful to stop fake pressure, and most of his bad MU got nerfed harder than him besides Guile, i can see Nash and Chun li being less stressful now
Even things like crosscut DPs are still great, from my experience, i menaged to land 90% without any trade while doing some lobbys with Akuma, they improved the hitbox on DPs while nerfed all crossups.
Running through the changelog last night, I saw a ton of other characters also had the frame data on a number of their normals increased by 1F, which, in addition to general damage reductions, I’m actually wondering if Ryu might not come out so bad off after all.
Exception being the SRK nerfs, which is still a very inelegant way for Capcom to have dealt with a “problem” most players don’t actually seem to view as a problem.
talking without any kind of knowledge; that’s not the case. dp’s fucked up.
M DP is still invincible on frame 3. It will still work against frame traps with a gap of 3 or more.
If someone sweep you and then jump you will have to block or they will CH you cause no invincibility in frames 1~2, if standing you now have to time your dp to hit your opponent between frame 3~6 and it will depend on the button your opponent press cause some attacks hit lower than others, you will have to block all meaty attacks, all with damage nerf in VT, hp dp with 20 dmg nerf in normal, 30 dmg nerf in VT, -50 stun in both; like I said dp’s are fucked up unless you want to expend your bars in ex.
This is a lot easier than you’re making it sound. You already do this, you don’t even realize it.
Don’t know if was reported but now with Ryu you can do
stHP -> V-Trigger
and
stMP-> stHP -> V-Trigger
before in both cases it gave me the third hit (stHK) of the target combo and only at that point i could V-trigger cancel
b+HK -> SRK
feel good
SPS ->b+HK feel kinda awkward
stHP (VT only) special cancellable feel so awesome, i wish it was in normal version too 
b+hk and st.hp canceled into haduken are true blockstrings
shame, i want to catch people pressing buttons.
The cancel window in st.hp is huge, tho.
I still don’t really see the point in nerfing DPs, you already lose half your life if you get one blocked in most cases anyway. It’s not like they had an FADC safety net or anything so they were already risky as hell to throw out but now there’s much less reason to do so anyway. I dunno.
Really disappointed that b.HK xx EX Shoryu doesn’t really work as an anti-air. If you use b.HK as an anti-air, they bounce too high to get scooped by the first hit, so it they only eat the second hit and it does like ~120 damage for 1 bar of meter and no oki. There’s also b.HK xx EX fireball, which is better, but the only good thing about is the oki, and you’d still do more damage just doing a straight EX DP, and also I feel like it’s easy to drop.
I do feel like grey damage buff is really good for zoning. It’s very easy to build grey health on them and then just keep them from healing with fireballs, or hide behind fireballs to heal your own while, or both.
st lk range nerf really hurts. st hk st lk DP/tatsu feels nonexistant as ranges you would use st hk as a non meaty/neutral is basically a huge portion of the range where it won’t connect.
Icing on the cake after losing a good chunk of punishes w/ st lk.
Throws feel like complete ass now. Literally one button strings to even threaten throw, no real followups.
everything else is meh. EX FB is a nice change but the meter requirements makes me wonder how much mileage we will actually see when combined with reduced meter gain.
I’ve been playing around with him for just a little bit. A lot of minor nerfs but I don’t really feel them right now. I can see it though like st. LP, st. MP, st. LK block string no longer working. The DP and throw nerfs are universal but I’m not sure I believe Ryu is that capable without having a invincible DP. Characters like him have always been balanced around those tools. Now that he lacks that and his regular fireballs have actually gotten a bit worse I fear that he’ll drop further than we think he will.
As for his buffs, man I was excited about the axe kick into EX Shoryu. But it’s practically useless where you would want to use it. LurkBrian already summarized my thoughts. The EX fireball buff might be arguably his best buff. It basically just gives us Ken style corner frame traps that could lead to big damage(with 2 bars) if hit confirmed though. The better frame advantage after st. MP and solar plexus doesn’t mean anything. So you get a new combo that does a tiny bit more damage and doesn’t open up any new possibilities, woohoo I guess.
But a couple of those buffs can be useful in a gimmicky way. With axe kick being cancelable now you can whiff it and buffer DP or EX tatsu like a moron. DP will only whiff at max range, other wise it hits at ranges that you wouldn’t think it would. All tatsu’s will always hit, but they have to be standing of course. Air tatsu > Super can be pretty useful if you have a character cornered that relies on standing anti air moves. Ryu can use his air LK tatsu to delay himself enough to make the anti air whiff and hit opponents during recovery or hit them just because they didn’t expect it. Nothing reliable or super useful, but it’s something he can do in those situations.
Welp. It’s like sf4 nerfs all over again. What a waste of money. Capcom really loves to spoon feed scrubs instead of making them learn.
I said a couple months back in the general thread before any of these changes if you want to nerf Ryu out the game - make his st.lk shorter. I didn’t actually think they’d follow through with that though.
The game mechanics don’t make sense, they don’t gel well. For example they want you to rack up grey life since it recovers slower - then somehow take that grey life away right? In order to do that you make overheads faster and you make throws a little better - you introduce a threat close up that in turn makes opponents push buttons which in turn opens up frame trap possibilities. It’s a fairly simple concept. Get the opponent into a position where they have to do something.
… They went and made overheads unusable ( at -6 that’s a full combo for a 60 damage trade) and the resulting throw now kills the momentum. They are not really designing a deep fighting game here, it’s a paint by numbers. Make everyone’s base rules the same.
There are glaring errors in everything though. How do you take a mix up machine with good normals like Urien and buff the living shit out of his buttons, while giving a footsie character like Ryu (with no mix up options) less options in neutral? Answers on a postcard.
I stopped trying to make sense of this game though because nothing really works together. It’s a new generation of design here, SF5 is it’s own thing.
It may be a bit too early to tell but man im really not seeing how the buffs ryu got over compensate the nerfs. The st Lk range nerf is huge, i don’t know why the fuck capcom messed with that but now im not so sure if we can punish those CC moves that were -4 on block and it’s harder to even use in neutral now. Ex fireball is nice but i feel it’s a bit commitment to use it if you’re trying to get CA. His Axe kick buff is great but on block you’ll just get v reversal’ed and in neutral its prone to being whiff punished guess capcom just wants us to hit people with axekick and solar plexus and some more fireballs