if you have a read…
f.throw, b.dash, lp whiff, cross up air hk tatsu
pretty unsafe if no dwu…
Let me see what I can find this weekend, I’ll post my findings around Sunday morning…
I only know this one. Don´t know, if it was uploaded yet.
But yeah, DWU is just goddamn awful.
Quick info:
DWU = 11f
Crouch jab = 11f
DWU message appears during Ryu’s recovery.
OK, this is going to get rough. Here we go…
First of all, DWU can be timed with crouch jab. If you program Ryu to sweep Yun, Dee Jay or Elena and jump in on them, you can’t hit Ryu with your EX reversals (4 frames). If you program Ryu to do the same thing but press crouch jab before jumping, when you DWU, he will still be safe from your EX reversals (4 frames).
Secondly, if you use your twitch reflexes to watch for the technical sign, you can react to it. You can practice this by setting the dummy to record while having the taunt buttons on turbo. When recording, you randomly press, hold and release the taught buttons so that you won’t know when the game will DWU. Put the dummy on playback, sweep/throw it and practice jumping or crouch jabbing into jump.
The way I set up to use my twitch reflexes is: I sweep then immediately up-forward. I focus on the area where the sign pops up. If I see the sign start to slide in, I hit down-back crouch jab asap.
Things to note, you have to practice a ton to get pressing crouch jab out of your system. You get an almost paranoia that you need to work out of your head. I have fail safes in my system, I’ll bring those up shortly. The sweep technical is harder to react to than the throw technical. The technical for the throw comes out earlier, so if you use normals to get your safe jump timing down, you should have no problem confirming the technical and reacting appropriately as the technical will slide in during the normal you are using to time your jump.
The most common and worst mistake I made at the beginning was performing crouch jab late and ending up with an early jump jab. Guaranteed punishes are from 3 frame moves, throws or command grabs. Please practice to avoid this situation. I would rather empty jump a non-DWU than whiff an air normal against it.
FYI: whiffed safe jumps are -3, empty safe jumps are -1.
Onto fail safes…
Now that we know what we want to avoid, I developed a small set of fail safes if you aren’t feeling up to reacting to the technical sign.
First, if you use normal safe jump timings, you will be +8 vs DWU if you empty jump, +6 vs DWU if you jump in with an attack and 0 vs DWU if you air tatsu during the downward part of your jump. Choose your normal for the situation. You can do a bunch of stuff like crouch medium kick during +8 and confirm a shoryuken link if you hit. Close short also shines here as well. Check out the frame data and choose your poison.
Second, if you accidentally use a DWU safe jump timing, you can usually use an early heavy air tatsu to cross up any AA attempts. You should hit them if they are standing or AAing, but wiff if they are crouching. If you get the DWU timing right, than light air tatsu a little later will give you the safer tatsu cross up. If you opponent for whatever reason isn’t trying to AA you, just do typical Ryu shit (jump towards strong, empty jump low, ect…)
Third, if you find that you are getting blown up even if you early heavy tatsu, I developed on last fail safe. If you jump towards your opponent with a tiger knee motion after you do your crouch jab for the DWU timing, you can press punch if you realize that there was no technical. If you do that, than your will get a meaty Hadoken on their wake up. You can be punished because you are close, but it depends on if your opponent is caught by surprise or not. Its the unsafest of the fail safes, but if your opponent doesn’t have an ultra stocked or whatever anti hadoken meter thing that character does or if they aren’t expecting it, you will be able to get away with it at least once.
Finally and most importantly, cross ups that are safe vs shoryukens are probably Ryu’s main safe jump now. Because it is a few frames later than a regular safe jump, you have an easier time confirming your opponent’s technical. Also, the crouch jab still times your set up correctly if you see the technical essentially making DWU ineffective to this type of oki. I’ve been focusing more on this type of oki since ultra’s release and it seems to be a decent work around. Now that I’ve labbed up how to use crouch jab and how to react to the technical, I’ll be adding that to my game as well.
If you put all this together, I feel you will have a solid game plan vs DWU. Also, don’t forget to OS once you’ve confirmed that your timing is correct. If you do everything correct and forget to OS, than all that work goes to shit when they escape you. Lol…
Good shit Fink! I know '09ers is the one who asked, but this is a great and thorough explanation of how to deal with DWU. Real quick questions, to confirm two things: so when you sweep, and you’re looking to react to the technical sign, if you hold up forward (as in a normal safe jump) you’ll have enough time in the moves recovery for the technical sign to appear before Ryu jumps and go to down back and press the jab and than continue with the jump? I imagine it’s just a matter of time to get good at reacting to the technical sign.
The other question: to get the Dummy to random DWU you say to set both taunt buttons (fierce and roundhouse?) to turbo, and hold and release them . . . when? I was a bit confused on this. So basically just have the Dummy stand there for a bit while I hold and than release the turbo’d taunt buttons and than proceed with Ryu as player 1 and the Dummy will random DWU when knocked down. Is that it?
Be nice if the Training Mode had an option for DWU on the Dummy as a setting feature. Anyways, great write up, I’ll have to start practicing this stuff myself.
The word technical slides in before you jump if you hold up forward. Problem is that you don’t get that 11 frames you need for human reaction. Once it stops moving, you are probably too late (I don’t have fancy equipment for testing.) You can react to by just being very jumpy with it (using your twitch reaction speed.) You definitely need to practice or what you will do is start predicting and reacting to nothing. That sucks. It took me a couple hours to get consistent with it. The only reason this even has a chance to be practical is because you don’t need to focus on anything else because your opponent is down. Add to that the fact that you are already holding up so that you don’t have to focus on regular safe jumping and you also have a back up plan in case you don’t react to the technical; this lets you focus solely on the appearance of the technical sign without too much stress.
FYI: the window itself for DWU actually adds or subtracts a frame to the wake up. You can see this by setting dummy Ryu to sweep you. Have him jump in on you and land with a whiffed air tatsu and have the dummy holding up so it jumps immediately upon recovery. If you DWU, the math says you should be even, but if you practice hitting DWU early or late, you can actually see your character jump before or after the dummy. The timing for DWU on Ryu’s sweep is after the hit but before you touch the ground. Play around with that to see what I’m talking about. Most people mash, so you don’t have to worry about it too much as they will usually get the earliest times. But some players might actually practice DWU timings and fuck you up, so just be aware.
For setting the dummy to DWU, I use the taunt (heavy punch & kick) because attacking buttons just got annoying after a while. All you have to do is be random enough with recording your taunting inputs, holds and releases that no matter how long you practice that session, you won’t be able to figure out if your dummy is going to DWU or not. I use turbo because the window is not very large, so you want to hold down turbo’d inputs for like, half a second to ensure that recording won’t be consistently missing DWU attempts. You’ll understand after you try it a couple of times. You’ll notice that either you’ve held the buttons down too often and get nothing but DWU or you didn’t hold the buttons down long enough and you rarely get DWU. Either way, both are good for practice because if you are getting one thing very consistently, your goal is to catch the rarity and not mess up on it. I preferred having a good mix though, you can get bored easily from burn out through too much concentration…
I’m sure that I have read on the forums that capcom has stated a DWU option is coming to training mode eventually.
Hi everybody.
How do I input the following Ultra 1 combo?
cr. mk>EX Hadoken>FADC>Ultra 1
The way I understand buffering is that it should look something like this:
:d: :mk: :df: :f: :hp: :mp: :mp::mk: :f: (since the game should’ve buffered the forward motion from the hadoken as a forward and qfc input already, right?) :d: :df: :f: :3p:
So basically my problem is that a single forward doesn’t let me cancel the focus attack, I always manually dash by this point and 99 percent of the time I don’t get the ultra out at the end, even if my inputs look like it should, it gives me an EX Shoryuken or EX Hadoken and sometimes even a shinku hadoken even though the input history clearly reads :3p:.
So another related question is:
As I’ve seen this combo used by Alex Valle and others, it’s used as a hit confirm. If you have to input these motion that fast and seamlessly, how the fuck do you confirm that your first 2 moves actually connected before inputting the ultra motion?
The real key (for me) is to slow it down, and really get a feel for the low forward canceled into fireball, and then do the FADC and Ultra 1. Part of my problem with this combo is that I want to do it way, way too fast. Once I get a feel for the low forward fireball it feels like I have a lot of time to FADC and then input the Ultra.
Here’s a couple of screen shots to show how lenient the inputs can be:
- http://i.imgur.com/NsxSuHf.jpg
- http://i.imgur.com/fz5Q0L5.jpg
- http://i.imgur.com/QwPpUg7.jpg
- http://i.imgur.com/TtQzdaN.jpg
Anyways, I don’t know if those screen shots will be helpful, but the Dash does sort of become a part of the low forward xx fireball and the start of the Ultra in most of the shots I took. But the real key to doing it consistently is to really try and create a dividing line between confirming the Shakunetsu and FADC’ing/Ultra’ing. It’s almost as though I completely stop after the Shakunetsu comes out, than I hit Focus Attack, Dash and Ultra. When I get EX Shoryuken I am usually mashing the stick inputs on the FADC/Ultra.
Break it all down, then bring it together a piece at a time.
Thanks for your help.
Checking out your inputs and my own, I came to the conclusion that I have to input 2x qcf after the fadc.
I thought the qcf from the ex hadoken counted towards the ultra input through buffering.
Seems I was wrong and I can do it halfway consistently now (at least from 2p side).
No problem. I noticed that you’re input images had only one quarter circle forward for the Ultra, but I figured that was a typo. Guess that could have solved it without everything else I said.
Also, I can barely do this combo once out of ten times from the player one side, so don’t fret. I can do it player two side fairly consistently (in training mode anyways), but I have to work so much harder to do a lot of inputs on the player one side; pretty sure it’s a common issue for players. Just keep practicing, it’ll come in time.
lol I’m actually starting to sweat in close matches when I somehow end up on the 1P side.
Then I’m like "Shit, now I can’t dp jump-ins, can’t dp-fadc u1, can’t even do decent corner pressure"
seriously P1 side is hell, even though I try to do all trials and combos from that side, it still feels slow and awkward.
Sorry for being off topic.
When you press focus, you do the ultra motion as fast as possible that will get you the dash and then you time the button press for as soon as the dash ends. This gives you the option to hit confirm your shoryuken.
I think you mean confirming the U1.
Anyways I tried that and when I do that in training, negative edge screws me and blows out Super as soon as I release the fa buttons, which is mildly annoying xD
Shoryuken xx focus cancel hold. Look to see if you hit. If you hit, perform ultra motion to dash cancel ultra. If you are blocked, release lvl 1 focus dash cancel forward = -2. If you shoryuken fadc forward = -5.
Impossible to be screwed by negative edge super. Go to practice mode and hold focus. Perform ultra motion. Lift fingers when you see the dash. Press 3 punch button/s at the end of dash. Profit $$$.
Holding focus is not effected by negative edge in the way you describe because release activates focus attack. Therefore you are holding the focus buttons down during the entire duration of the dash. Since the timing of the ultra activation is so strict when you perform the ultra motion in order to dash out of focus, you will automatically have to raise your fingers before the end of the dash in order to hit your 3 punch button/s on your earliest neutral frames… Only two ways you can get super with this method: 1. you didn’t hit all three punch buttons at the same time. This can be mitigated by having a 3 punch button. 2. You pressed three punches too early and you negative edged less than three buttons at the appropriate time. This can also be mitigated with a 3 punches button.
For sure. This is the Ryu General thread, you’re talking about Ryu, it’s not off topic. And it’s actually my #1 biggest failing in this game. I have the same reaction when I’m in game and I end up in a close round and find myself on the player 1 side; it’s like I suddenly feel as though a whole sleuth of options have been cut off: I can uppercut, but I can’t uppercut and FADC with any reliability. It’s a funny thing too, because of the amount of practice I’ve put into player 1 side execution a lot of motions on the player one side are performed far more rigidly than on the player 2 side, so when I’m in training mode and I actually manage to hit a combo on the player 1 side the inputs tend to look way cleaner than on the player 2 side. It’s like there’s this loose and free form feel to motions performed on the player 2 side that become awkward and unfamiliar on the player 1 side. So things are ‘messy’ on the player 2 side, but feel more natural; I almost feel robotic on the player 1 side.
But the thing about it is that I think that if I were to use specific characters it might be the reverse problem. Ryu’s special inputs are mostly qcf motions, with the exception of the SRK motion (which is still executed by moving the direction towards) and tatsu’s which is a qcb. So . . . interestingly enough, a basic combo that I actually have far more trouble doing consistently on the player 2 side is a combo that ends in a tatsu, which ends with me trying to do a qcb in the direction of the player 2 side, just like a combo with a qcf from the player 1 side. So for example, C. Viper, who’s special moves and Super/Ultra’s are predominantly qcb motions, might be seemingly easier from the player 1 side for me. (This is, of course, ignoring the fact that C. Viper has a generally higher execution requirement, and I have no idea how to play her; I’m just speaking on the fact that most of her motions on the player 1 side result in a motion that moves to the left, as if you were on the player 2 side, doing a qcf.) That, of course wouldn’t really solve any problems, because I’d have the same issues, just on a different side of the screen. The real issue is moving my hand towards the right side.
Moving my hand toward the left feels as natural as anything I do regularly, but doing the same action to the right feels completely unnatural. It’s like trying to write with my left hand, or Jack Off with my left hand; it just feels . . . wrong. Of course that has it’s own set of benefits: that subtlety uncoordinated and awkward motion of getting a hand job say, with persistence it’s often better than the practiced right hand, kind of like a special treat I suppose; it’s sort of off kilter, like it just doesn’t have the coordination to maintain a consistent rhythmic stroke, but that in and of itself is part of it’s charm, 'cause she doesn’t do this as often as you do (plus she’s on her knees facing you, or maybe lying to your left or right side with her arm cradled behind your neck) and even if she likes to do it regularly there’s always going to be this subtle difference, this rotation in the grip and this light tug to the wrong side, the left side usually, that she’ll never practice out of her execution. I would always just favor the right hand personally and let that awkward left stay unpracticed and not taint the genuine article; plus masturbating is all business anyway, I’m only considering my own needs, the left hand is a chore.
But I digress. I have managed to find a way to adjust my overall grip when I’m on the player 1 side to make motions feel a bit more natural. When I sit to play my natural grip tends to leave my arm hanging over the edge of the stick case at about 8 o’clock, so if I adjust my position so that my arm is more at about 6:30 I have an easier time executing some of the tougher combos on the player 1 side. Granted it’s still a bit awkward, but if I can manage to make the conscious switch when playing it definitely has a noticeable effect on my execution.
Some personal advice based on my personal endeavor overcoming p1 side.
Ride the gate. Create techniques using shortcuts to make your inputs consistent. Your p2 side was also awkward at one point, but all you have to do is perform consistently in clutch situations. Once you have clutched out enough motions riding the gate (thousands of motions) you will get the same comfort you have with p2 side. At that point you have to relearn your inputs, but it won’t feel awkward and you won’t hesitate to perform anymore.
Tips:
You can perform exercises to get your hand used to p1 side motions faster. The first exercise I created for myself was turning my hand palm up and recreating fast beats with my knuckles. The second exercise I came up with is stirring. You just take a pencil or straw and stir a cup of water clockwise as fast as you can. Once you can do get a decent speed with your thumbs down, get rid of the water, turn the cup upside down and start practicing thumbs up.
Riding the gate makes you need a different set of motions for p1 side. For ultra motions you need a three step motion: down or down-back to down-forward in one motion, the second motion is going to down-back, the third motion is down-back to up-forward (tiger knee). The last part sounds like I’m complicating things, but if you don’t have a corner to hit after you get to down-forward you will often not get to forward fast enough to causing ex shoryukens to come out instead. For shoryuken motions, either ride the bottom corners if you are crouching or if you are walking forward, use a scratching motion to ride from front to down or down back than finish in down-forward. Since you will have to do a million hadoken in your life, just don’t bother riding the gate (this ween you off of the gate slowly) unless its for a walk forward into a crouch medium kick xx hadoken. Just remember to not be holding down-forward when pressing medium kick and try to cancel into hadoken as late as possible. Riding the gate should be natural and doesn’t need an explanation.
How you are sitting is important. The way your body sits in the chair changes the accuracy of your execution. If you move around and sit in many different ways while playing, you have to practice in each sitting position or settle with one. If you don’t, you’ll have random execution problems with, “shit you could do yesterday.” I used to hate not knowing why I couldn’t stay consistent when learning some shit, than I realized that the two chairs I was sitting on put me in different playing positions. I started playing in only one chair and that problem disappeared. Once the motions became natural, I could switch between chairs no problem.
Practice every possibility. Shoryuken fadc ultra is not that same as Hadoken fadc ultra. Each fadc to ultra needs to be practiced because the position of your hands change depending on what you did before the fadc. Even light, medium and ex shoryukens have an effect on your consistency. Raw ex hadoken to link ultra in the corner will not be the same as crouch forward xx ex hadoken link ultra. Even harder is mid screen close forward xx ex hadoken link ultra. Then you have to practice your ex hadoken fadc ultra which is a completely different feel altogether.
I started out learning Ryu since he seemed like a simple, allround character that could deal with anything. But then I got myself beat up by Gouken by friends that know less about fighting games than I do. So I practiced Gouken a bit to get to know his moves and then I fought the AI Gouken with Ryu. I had problems with that so to know how the AI played Ryu I switched to Gouken and found myself having a much smoother ride. It seems to me he’s got better range, more options (definitely more options), better power, fast and the excellent senkugoshoha after gohadoken or the great hyakkishu to move in.
Am I missing something? What does Ryu have against Gouken?
Ryu has better anti air. Ryu has easier and more hit confirmable combos. Ryu has c.mk. Gouken is a great character, he’s just missing some tools, so playing him is kind of wonky.
Ok, but I get the feeling that him and a bunch other characters have better range than Ryu, hitboxwise. So they can reach me but I can’t reach them. True?
Yea, that’s true is some cases. That’s not a bad thing, though. Most attacks with more range than Ryu has also have a 7+ frame startup. Ryu’s pokes are 5 frames. So, when you do get in range, your pokes will beat theirs. Evil Ryu is an easy example, cuz his c.mk is very similar. It’s just got longer startup and a little more range. If you’re c.mk is just barely whiffing, he can still hit you with his and he’ll beat your pokes. If you get close enough to touch him with your c.mk, though, he can’t use his anymore because yours will win. It’s 2 frames faster.