WIP
Highlight me with @SUPARNOVAX for match up notes to include in the corresponding discussion.
Much like Ken but worse,
-He has invincibility you don’t
-He has good normals, you don’t
-He has a zoning game, you have a useless headstomp in which you might do 80 damage or take 300 if it doesn’t work
Just quit if you see Ryu he owns you.
So far this has been my toughest match up.
His game plan is the same as always, fireball zoning and anti airing, combined with a bit of neutral jumping fishing for SK. If he scores a knockdown its rush down time.
Footsies are difficult because of Bison’s slow walk speed and his dash actually goes so far its difficult to maintain poking range or safe LK.SK range. You don’t want to dash up to him as good Ryu’s can hit do C.LP x 2 hit confirm into Tatsu. Tatsu has huge corner carry and blows up throw teching hard. If it whiffs because your crouching you can’t punish it that hard, at best you can land Pyscho Axe. On block its very unsafe but you need to delay the punish as you don’t want to reset him while he is in the airborne frames of recovery.
Ryu’s S.LP is godly anti air and gives Ryu free pressure when you land from the reset. I’ve seen it consistently beat all Bison’s jump in options including Stomp and Devils Reverse.
Bison is free to wake up pressure without having his critical art stocked. On wake you expect throws, tick throws, empty jump lows, empty jump throw, raw Tatsu right as you stand up , shimmy into Tatsu or C.MP xx Tatsu, and Meary S.HK which also knocks jump away back down and will allow for a combo on hit. Even though its -1 on block the push back makes Bison’s light moves whiff. If your low on health you can also expect his overhead to be thrown in.
Ryu’s best bet of scoring a knockdown, are let Bison kill himself trying to get in. Sweep in footsies (double dash for corner carry on crush counter) and EX.Fireball from mid range.
His sweep needs to be punished as hard as possible on block.
From full screen, his fireballs are not a threat, but don’t bother reflecting fireball back as a good Ryu will just parry the return or use it as an opportunity to get in without fear of you anti airing him. No harm in just absorbing them, no fear of eating a jump in here.
Ryu will attempt to fireball zone from midscreen to shut down your movement options on the ground and make reflecting more difficult. Reflect is better from midscreen but carries more risk. Be wary of EX.Fireball as it blows up reflect and knockdowns allowing Ryu in for free pressure. His V-Trigger fireball is very fast but still reflect-able.
EX.Head Press doesn’t seem to useful against Ryu’s fireballs. Ryu’s forward movement on fireballs causes stomp to whiff and gives Ryu a free punish.
I do feel Ryu takes more risk’s throwing fireballs in V than IV. Bison’s jump in seems less floaty and your not going drop the big damage combo when you make the read.
He also has to make an honest read with his DP on wake up now and the punishment is heavy for guessing wrong. The presence of his DP alone means Bison gets less opportunity’s to pressure him when he score a knockdown, as jumps ins are going to get DP.
Ryu’s V-trigger so far hasn’t made much of an impression on me and is not really been a decisive factor in the match up so far.
Parry seems like a 50:50 win/lose situation for Ryu so far.
Getting him to the corner and avoiding the corner yourself is needless to say very important.
That’s all for now.
Punish options on Ryu.
Sweep (-11)
S.HP xx HP.Inferno
S.HP xx EX.Knee Press
Collar Bone Breaker (overhead) (-4)
C.LP/S.LP/S.LK xx LP.Blast
Solar Plexus Strike (-2)
C.LP/S.LP/S.LK xx LP.Blast. Not a punish but a safe push away option. You may occasionally just want to block here as Ryu’s only counter to this is DP and he will occasionally throw it out if you do this every time.
If this is done meaty Ryu can reduced this to -1 on block.
Axe Kick (0)
You can score a trade with S.LP, C.LP or S.LK, the trade will be slightly in Ryu’s favor as you will also loose the grey damage from blocking the axe kick but you will create a small amount of space by taking the trade. Ryu’s will tend to auto pilot follow up Axe Kick with with S.LK and look to confirm into Tatsu. S.LK is -2 on block. You can throw out C.MP after this as it will beat all Ryu’s options but DP. After Axe Kick or S.LK you don’t need to worry about his 3 frame S.LP as it doesn’t have enough range to reach you. Like Solar Plexius Strike you will occasionally want to block to punish DP’s.
Jordan Nirengeki/Sanrengeki (Target Combo’s) (-7)
S.MP, C.MP xx MP. Inferno
Minds Eye (Parry) Whiff Punishers
CC S.HK. slight walk forward S.HK, C.MP, xx MP.Inferno
CC Shadow Axe, C.MP xx MP.Inferno (2 frame quicker start up than above)
CC.Psycho Axe, S.HP xx HP.Inferno (best range punish)
Hadoken (-7)
C.MP xx MP.Inferno
C.MK xx LK.SK, use this if you need more range.
VT C.MP/C.MK xx Inferno
VT Hadoken Level 1 (-6)
C.MP xx MP.Inferno
VT C.MP xx Inferno
VT Hadoken Level 2 (-4)
C.LP/S.LP/S.LK xx LP.Blast
EX.Hadoken (-2)
VT EX.Hadoken (-1)
C.LP/S.LP/S.LK xx LP.Blast, again safe push away option.
Shoryuken.
CC S.HK, Psycho Axe, C.MP xx.MP.Inferno
Tatsu (-10)
S.HK, C.MP xx MP.Inferno
His HK.Tatsu hits 3 times from close range but if you are more than a quarter of the screen away it will only hit twice. Be aware of this, as often I found myself waiting on the third hit to be blocked to time my punish only for it to only hit twice and Ryu getting a free throw before I could react.
EX.Tatsu (-19)
Psycho Axe, C.MP xx MP.Inferno. I recommend letting the stick/pad go to neutral during block stun to avoid you accidentally getting HP.Blast instead of Psycho Axe.
Shinkuu Hadoken (-18)
Psycho Axe/S.HK, C.MP xx MP.Inferno.
I’ve played some more of this match up and have seen some improvements.
I’m starting to think Bison wins the neutral game but Ryu has a much stronger defense. The corner is a nightmare for both characters.
Pyscho Axe is helping me a lot in footsies.
Reflect without sending the fireball back is pretty good in the neutral game. Keeps the V-Guage building.
Even though S.LP is godlike anti air for Ryu, even players with good reactions will struggle to anti air EX.DR as its so fast and I’m finding is a good get in tool.
I’m struggling to anti air at the moment, more due to my own poor reactions. Something I have to work on. If I can improve on that, I’d feel pretty confident in this match up.
I’m also struggling with poor reactions to anti airs. But sometimes the jump in setups are just so narrow that you kind of have to give up trying to anti air and just block.
I’m willing to accept blocking random jumps that have coincidentally gone over my pokes.
I’m also willing to accept blocking jump in’s from the narrow angles you refer to SUPRANOVAX.
But I get annoyed with myself when I’m looking for raw no pressure jump in’s and I just stare at them and block like a chump.
In the mid-range, s.HP seems to beat a lot of Ryu’s normals due to it’s great range and you can cancel into HP Blast or HK SK on hit which makes you start your pressure. I think Bison wins the neutral game due to that kind of stuff, so the game plan should be to stay in neutral game, bait the DPs and be careful not to get knocked down or crossed up.
Hi folks,
So i already know that bison will mostly win the neutral and mid to close range game against ryu but here’s the problem:
What to do vs constant s.MP pressure or whatever block string u can think into jumpins and crossups. Ryu can spam these and do whatever he wants and you can’t stop him or get him off you unless with a CA or V-Reversal or random sweeps. we know bison’s backdash is shit and s.LP and c.HP AAs are totally unreliable on close range jumpins. is there any answer to this? or i just have to avoid these situations?
There isn’t really a set guide to dealing with block strings and frame traps. Its about knowing what his moves are on block, learning what his typical frame traps are and the range he can throw you and making educated guesses on blocking to ride out the pressure or pressing a button to interrupt.
Against close range jump in’s NJ.LK will stop all his jump in’s. Its fast coming out in 7 frames (4 pre-jump frames + 3 start up frames) and has a good hitbox on it. The issue with using this is that your opponent may still have frame advantage after the aerial reset. If Bison hits him early into #Bison’s jump, then the opponent will have frame advantage and then its a matter of how close the jump was to begin with as to whether your opponent is reset right beside you or too far away to take advantage. If you hit your opponent from just before the apex of Bison’s jump or after then frame advantage passes to Bison and in my experience it usually does pass to Bison. Mid screen you can avoid the reset issue by using jump back light kick.
Against cross ups, you don’t have amazing options, you can try jump light kick, and you can also use the forward leaning motion of S.MP to make cross ups whiff. If you have good reactions or are expecting a cross up forward dash should get you out of trouble.
The only bullet proof AA is critical art.
You can’t really avoid this situations totally as you need to be in these ranges to do damage.