No. sa1 is slower than sa2. A good rule of thumb is that fireballs are always slower startup than srk’s, whether they are a super or special. Psychic dps would probably get you out ok.
I may be wrong, but no, it shouldn’t. Any denjin should learn sa1 just for Akuma unless the player is bad at reversal teleports.
Sorry can’t answer your other questions, that’s all I know offhand.
Against truly formidable opponents yeah, Denjin is prettyawful (akuma wise, at least) but I’ve worked it over on players only using setups like s.mk/c.mk, shoryu xx denjin block strings and other red-parry setups (far s.mp xx hadou xx denjin).
good info, thanks
more questions are.
whats the SA of choice vs yang and akuma? these 2 characters, i hate with a passion in 3s. simple but high stun/damage combos and mixes. i never got to play much scrubs on the way cuz i started this game out late. i was always playing smart and above good players, so when i get scrub’d im kinda clueless. as well as havent played many yangs and akumas on the way.
i dont always have a stocked SA2, so whats the best options for ryu? pokes counter pokes and such. block strings and things that stuff wake up EX upkicks from yang (dunno the name). whats the priority on that or invincibility anyway? i never knew, hard for me to meaty it though.
i know how to deal with top tier matchups, because i see them all the top, as well as read about them cuz they’re everywhere. its just the mid tiers and the more odd and rarely used characters that bother me.
I’d say the Akuma matchup is the only one where super art choice really matters, but even then, you are fine with sa1 or sa2.
With every other character, including Yang, you can do well with any super, it just depends on your style. Denjin Ryu is unique and takes some learning, but sa1 or sa2 is based mainly on shoto skills. I’m sa1 for every matchup. It’s easier since you won’t be worrying about managing meter, and won’t be sacrificing potential. More EX Hadous is never a bad thing.
My main point is find the super art that suits you, so long as it isn’t denjin against Akuma. You can win these matchups with any super really.
Against Akuma, you probably don’t realize it, but you can almost completely nuetralize his demon flip mixups with srk. It takes some getting used to because it feels random, but when you see him go into the flip, shoryu his ass. It should beat it cleanly. Mk and Hk tatsus should be punishable with shoryu if your timing is precise. lk tatsu can be punished with c.fp into combo of your choice. From there, it pretty much becomes a mirror match for you. Just have stronger shoto skills. Keep your space when hes waking up too because hes got great wakeup moves. A meaty EX hadou with some space between you should be safe.
One of the tough things about Yang is he ducks under a lot of your big damage stuff. Beating Yang is about having good fundamentals. Don’t jump a lot, and if you do, be ready to block when you land because Yangs like to try to hit you with c.mk’s when you land. Try to keep him zoned. It’s going to be harder for Yang to try a lot of his mixups from mid range and he’ll probably go to the air. When Yang (or Yun) start the endless dive kick massacre, don’t be afraid to shoryu. There isn’t a whole lot of time to option parry between a straight jump and a dive kick. Just try to play this matchup safe. I’m not too familihar with the properties of the wake up kick thing, so I can’t help you much there. Hope this helps!
yes it does help, i appreciate it.
like i said im fairly new to 3s but im catching on pretty good. since i play chuns and kens most of the time, i tend to turtle a lot. not hug the wall type of turtle, more of the wall type thats sturdy. like i always back up from a poke to be out of range then punish by walk up sweep or EX hadou.
my main 2 moves vs akuma is to UOH any crouching attacks, and s.mk after it (not too predictably though, sometimes EX Hadou and c.mk or jump back hk).
are you sure this srk after his tatsu works? i know mid screen, it hits a few times, then does a crossup hit (mk tatsu or hk? im not sure, dont know about akuma). in corner, yeah i just stick out a c.hp into mk joudan or something right when he lands.
also, i use hk tatsu to cross up. the timing or something sometimes differs i guess? when i try to hit like hugo its easy, but on the twins the timing seems to need to be more accurate or something. at what height is it best to start the tatsu?
another thing is, after i hit with EX hadou or SA1, is hk tatsu the best way to get across the screen? or is 4 dashes safer? can a tatsu be reversal SA3’d by a quick roll’d ken (ex hadou version).
and any ideas why SA1 doesnt reset hugo good? i’ve had the least success with air to air hk, lp’s, just about everything lol.
as for yang, i dont like srking much. i find s.mp to be good, it trades a lot when the divekick hits his bicep. also it beats it clean if he does a whiff lk divekick. and if i get hit by a hk one close s.hp comes out nicely.
and how about yang’s slashes? i know the 2nd one can be reversal’d, but what do i do if hes pressuring with jab slashes, and EX ones? im out of throw range too, and i dont wanna guess SRK him. any good tips on this?
sorry for the long list of questions, i wont expect a quick reply for this one. but i appreciate all the help.
Allright, lets see here…
Sounds good! I can’t stress enough how important knowing your footsies is with Ryu. Ryu is a powerhouse, but strongest when the player has excellent footsies. Sounds like you’re building a strong ground game.
Don’t crouch block it, and it won’t cross you up. The frame advantage on the mk tatsu is -8, and the rh tatsu is -5. All of Ryu’s srk’s have 3 frame startup, so, like I said, it’s tight timing, but it should work. You can also try to throw.
I’m not sure if I follow here. Are you talking about air tatsus?
HK tatsu is just fine after sa1, and will build a small amount of meter. A quick roll can probably get up fast enough to block and punish, and as you probably know, a lot of things can punish a blocked tatsu with Ryu. I wouldn’t risk it and just dash.
No clue, but I’ve had similar experience. Different characters have different properties when falling, and Hugo just happens to be a bitch when it comes to resets.
I may have to start using s.mp more often. I guess too much. The pressuring jab slashes is annoying, but you should be able to parry out of it, especially since he doesn’t want to throw out 2 and won’t be chaining them. Have you tried kara throwing him?
No problem :tup:
havent thought about that yet, i should definitely give that a try. what i’ve been doing (which really isnt smart cuz i can get roll kicked) but not abusing is jump back hk, c.mk confirm a EX hadou. gives me more breathing room.
yeah i need to start parrying those too, thats free big damage so im sure its worth the practice.
yes sir. i been trying to set up with denjin. when people jump around me and i block/tap hp before they hit around, i wanna tatsu cross them for more stun and denjin it when they’re knocked down and switched into the corner. when should i start the tatsu? also a good to know question is the ground one, seems useful for setting up denjin (not abused though of course :tup:) . i also know it varies between quick roll and all.
I have a lot of trouble vs good Urien and Yang players as Ryu as well.
Yangs pressure at the corner owns me… Yun is easier to stop, but Yang is just a monster.
As for Denjin… I rarely ever use it… It’s so easy to parry… Unless you are close when they are parry and you can poke them.
i thought i saw this earlier in the thread. vs urien, its pretty easy. all your pokes out prioritize his. s.mp is really good vs urien, it beats out his headbutt clean. theres no need to ever EX srk on wakeup, so scratch that out. tech on reaction. s.hp far and near as anti air, roundhouse works very well too. u can also s.mp as anti air, it beats his roundhouse clean as well. if he parries it, cancel into EX hadou.
mix up on his wakeup between walk back, kara throw. and walk back a little (but not too far) s.mpxxEX hadou. s.mk is a good poke too as always. also another thing i like to do on jump happy uriens is dash under and close s.hp them. dont do this if ur gonna be put in the corner though. and always try to stay out of throw range. if ur in it, meaty and block string or kara throw, dont pause near him, hes always looking for a grab when you corner him.
oh and EX hadous work very well as a deep anti air, gives you a lot of time to charge and dash. another good thing to note about s.hp far and close is, if u time it to make the far hit, if its close, it will hit anyways. its good to make the opponent guess which one is coming, especially if u step back or forward a bit.
i also see s.lp as an anti air a lot by japs. most people expect dash up throw, and if you jump in at them they will parry high most the time. you can air cross up tatsu them after this, or super (do it early) if you have it in stock.
also what i also noticed was that other top ryu players started doing EX joudan (donkey kick) as a poke. i think if ur fast enough you can punish with it good.
you shouldnt be getting hit by urien, and if you do, unfortunately, its probably over :sad:
I would say time your air tatsus fairly late as cross up, however I’m not that practiced in them.
As far as ground tatsus to set up denjin…Well, you shouldn’t be in the frame of mind that you need to land a tatsu in order to setup a denjin. If you have a punish opportunity, use the lk tatsu so you recover quicker after they are knocked down and you can charge longer, but in general using your block setups and srk’s are safer.
Against Urien remember that you can punish a blocked kneedrop, shoulder or c.hp with c.mk. Use c.mk > ex Hadou to punish the c.hp, and c.mk > hk tatsu against the other two. Of course, if you have a stocked sa1, c.mk > sa1. Also, c.hp is good against Urien. High priority and he can’t really do anything about it on block.
yeah i thought it’d just be cool to turn the tables with a crossup tatsu to set up denjin. this is if my back is to the corner. but ok ill just go in practice mode and test it out
Well, not surprisingly, the one match-up that’s murdering me is Chun Li. What can you do against a crouching metered Chun? Almost everything I try basically becomes a chance for her to go for that damnable super! Not fun. I know it’s really skewed to the big-thighed woman’s favor, but how can you make it more bearable? I don’t want to keep having to pick Ken for this!
chun is my favorite match.
your goal is to build meter while preventing her. random fireballs work on non metered chun. also pay close attention. HP fireballs very close arent bad from my experience, but not to be abused on meter chun. pay attention , if he crouches 2 times, hes doing a qcf qcf. remember he can do 3 and as many qcf’s he wants then super, so dont fireball if u see this.
dont try to counter poke too much and out poke her, thats a big mistake. feel out the chun first, if hes not that great you can crouch block, and walk back from the poke and sweep her. thats my main move. her quick roll is fast, so dont dash up and eat a low forward super.
you should always walk vs chun, dashes get you caught into normal->super. UOH is good to poke scarcely, it can easily be stopped though. do it when you smell a low forward. after that you can EX hadou, walk up a lil closer, and keep inching forward.
if you’re cornered, dont panick, that gets you hit. you have to learn how to inch your way out, theres no faster way.
also instead of tripping u can EX hadou depending on how fast ur reaction and qcf+pp is.
also SA1 is a pretty much must. denjin doesnt stock enough EX fireballs that u can use effectively.
s.mk far is used more often as a poke, s.mp goes over her crouch.
if you happen to parry, c.hpxxEX donkey kick is good. it should hit her crouching unless shes really out of reach. if u parry a far fierce, get used to doing raw EX donkey kick, or c.mkxxtatsu of ur choice. if you need meter, i would use lk, if you have enough and need to corner, hk is good.
vs a chun with meter always keep in mind you wanna be VERY CLOSE when you EX hadou. from the slightest distance from a poke, you can eat a nasty SA2.
c.hpxxfireball on all of her limbs reaches VERY far and still combos.
key to vs chun is patience, patience, patience. then capitalize when you’re in there.
edit:i’d also like to know if c.hp will stop chuns cancel into SA2, from a low forward. if not, then, block to see what he does after a parried low forward.
Just out of curiousity… Is there ever a time where an AIR EX Tatsumaki is useful?
As a trick, yes. Some characters like to bait jump ins, and this will obviously get you out of it. Otherwise, no, not really.
With regards to Chun, MagnetoManiac posted some good info (particularly the bit on not letting her get meter). Be very aware of what moves will and won’t hit her. Chun is a tough matchup, but losing because of a punish that she ducks under sucks, and she ducks under a lot.
You also might want to get familiar with j.mk as a crossup. It’s not that bad tbh.
i saw something about ryu’s taunt earlier in the thread but cant find it anymore. anyone know its exact effects?
The guides on gamefaqs say it makes your stun meter go back down faster… But I don’t notice it so either they are wrong or it’s just very very little.
The description I got is:
“Increases Ryu’s stun gauge recovery rate. Stacks up to three times.”
What does it mean by stack up???
Stack as in it increases even more the 2nd time and even more the 3rd time, but no more the 4th time.
well i just played a good ken player today. that matchup is HARD.
the player i played against made very limitted mistakes, i could not footsie him that good. my only hits off him were off of a EX hadou poke and wake up games.
anyone else know how to create openings vs a ken? i dont like jumping in on him, and i get aggitated by his pokes. its very annoying to rely on a random c.mk or EX hadou to do the work while ur getting pecked away by pokes into hit confirm SA3.