^ You should try blocking after the FA (if you don’t cancel the crmk into hadoken). But seriously, if someone focuses, and you do crmk buffered into hadoken, it should AT LEAST trade. You are either waiting for him to go for FA level 3 before you input your crmk, or you’re just not blocking after the mk. If not, only way you are getting hit by it is, they activate the focus attack BEFORE you go for cr.mk xx hadoken. But why would you poke him when he focuses if you know you’ll fail. I mean it’s kinda weird because even if he has reached FA level 2 you can still cancel it into fireball and at LEAST it will trade.
The focus attack starts, but the c.mk is thrown out slightly after before I can react to the fact that the focus attack has started. The fireball doesn’t trade because startup takes so long, and I can’t block because I get hit in recovery. Even when I notice the focus attack and can react so that I don’t throw out the c.mk, I’m at a loss for what to do.
Roughly whats the frame advantage on a crossup tatsu like is it positive or negative.
Whats the best way to beat it?
yflow, are you even buffering the hadoken, or any special when you do the crmk? Chances are you might not know something…I think I see what’s wrong. Whenever you do a crmk, as soon as you tap the mk button, you do a hadoken motion and press P, regardless if you know if it will hit or not. That’s called a buffer. Essentially what you are doing is cr.mk + QCF + P. You buffer the hadoken motion after the crmk in case it hits. This is also what is called an option select (OS). An OS is an input that can be interpreted by the game as many different commands, and making the game choose the dominant option over the others. Basically what you are doing is, if your mk kick doesn’t connect, nothing happens, if it does touch your opponent, a hadoken comes out.
You shouldn’t be at a loss if he just keeps focusing. You have MANY options. You can jump, neutral jump, or even ULTRA him. You can do ANYTHING if he decides to hold the focus. Remember, if you realize he is focusing and its kinda late you can cancel your cr.mk into a srk or a tatsu, it will beat the focus cleanly.
yflow, just remember, you don’t need to REALIZE that he is doing the FA to cancel the cr.mk. BUFFERING is what makes cancelling a cr.mk into a hadoken a brainless command. You just input cr.mk + QCF + P in a smooth motion. The game will decide the best option based on the situation.
This may sound stupid, but Focus Attacks are BLOCKABLE unless they are level 3, so how the heck could you be at a LOSS if you can block them and don’t do anything? If you see him hold the charge up to level 3, just jump or counter with ultra. Seriously Focus attacks are SLOW as heck. You must have really effed up reactions not to be able to react to a FA3 by at least jumping lol.
Blockstun is 20. And recovery is “until ground + 10”. So it’ll vary based on how high you are when you connect it on them. You will almost always be positive. Best way to beat it? Same as any other blocked jump-in, really. Better if you didn’t block it, but a predictive auto-correct or crosscut srk may be difficult sometimes.
I know all about buffering and whatnot, but what I’m saying is that the focus attack is released during the startup of the fireball so that I get hit out of it.
And like I said, ultra is easy to bait once I do it a couple of time. I can jump away, but more often than not, I get caught in jumping frames. I can block the focus attack, but then I’m at a frame disadvantage and the opponent is right in my face.
Happen to me all the time to and it has nothing to about buffering Fireball or not.
I think the problem is the lag, when I notice their Focus It already too late my c.mk xx hadoken
has already been buffered and I get hit in the middle of it. Its really frustrating to say the least.
Happen most of the time vs character that have very quick Focus attack and the connection is laggy.
Give you the impression their Focus has no start up frame.
a) You cant rely on C.MK> FB to beat a focus, not a fast focus anyway. Some FAs come out quicker than the FB.
b) You cant safely use C.MK> SRK if a FA is properly spaced (they can backdash and make you whiff).
… in fact, there is no reliable way to beat a FA after it has started. That’s why the best players dont try and counter it (unless its on prediction) they just get out the way.
VS slower FAs (well, average speed FAs actually) you can C.MK Tatsu, which is a pretty safe option but wont work against Cammy or other quick FAs
Jumping is not the right answer either, VS a character that has a decent AA, particularly if it leads to ultra. You can very easily get baited this way.
Ultra is mmost definately nt the best answer. They could very easily dash out, getting you waste your metre and giving them a free punish.
The safest thing to do is just backdash out of range and try to predict their FAs in future.
That’s what I was afraid of.
I came to that conclusion as well and it’s what I’ve been doing. I just wanted to hear that I could shut that nonsense down with some one-size-fits-all cure.
Thanks for the help, man.
Everything Paul said is true. Except what I meant when saying to jump when someone focus, I meant, to only jump IF you are 100% positive he will FA level 3.
n e 1 have any advice against bipsons… i mean bisons?
EDIT: nevermind found it on the matchup thread
It doesnt have to be a level 3 focus. Ultra, Super, Hurricane kick, Ex fireball, Solar plexus Punch, jump (Fw neutral, bwds) back dash, and focus attack are Ryu’s answers for focus attack. If they do a focus attack, they are stuck with that move for at least 18 frames or so.
You just have to pay attention to what kind of player you are fighting. If you notice they are a “focus happy” player then you could probably predict they will focus again after 3 or 4 attacks. Just wait for them and counter immediately. Alot of times they dont even care if you have Ultra stocked, they press focus because they are simply going through the motions
T/B We were discussing beating FA on reaction. most of the moves you listed are only suitable for prediction. Super does work on reaction though, thats true.
Ok i got a question and you guys dont have a question thread. That or im blind.
Ive been using ryu a lot lately. Im not the combo happy type. I like my frame traps, solid zoning, and solid pressure of throws and lp and mp.
Is using cst.mp and cst.mk as frame traps a good thing?
Can i win using SF2 zoning and use of normals.
Do i have to constantly pressure or jump in of every untechknockdown.
I often winning with out using DP FADC Ultra 1. Good or Bad.
some people would say yes but for me, its a no. It gives hella negative frames on block.
absolutely, but you will have to get to know the various spacing for FBs and also for C.MK, but to a lesser extent.
entirely up to you. If youre playing in a tournament I think yes, you have to take advantage of everything, but if its just online or w/e then no. I myself have an account I only use C.MK, C.FK and SRK in and I still do pretty well (3000pp, and half my skill is in FBs). you’ll never take Ryu to as high a level as possible without utilising untechables but if youre just wanting to lear or w/e I actually think its a very good idea to limit your game to the core fundamentals. It can be too easy to win with rushdown shenanigans but you dont learn too much. I often find that if I limit my game to just the very core basics I can often learn things even against an online noob. If I added rushdown I’d just rape a newcomer, but with no Fbs and not wake-up game, Im forced to play properly almost 100% of the time.
Gotta be a good thing, but dont think youll ever get far without learning to use SRK > FADC > U1 properly (and not just the actual combo but the set-up, ume-shoryus etc). Ryu needs that shit to play at a high level.
cst.MP and cst.MK cannot be used as frame traps because they leave you at negative frame advantage. this concept is not just for ryu but all characters. if the opponent blocks or gets hit, you have just framed trapped yourself :amazed:. funny, on another thread, someone is saying they are using these moves as frame traps too. just because a move has a fast startup doesnt mean it’s ideal for frame traps.
sf2 zoning will only work vs certain characters, but for the most part: fireballs are not nearly as good as sf2. almost all the characters in this game have a direct counter fireball zoning. if you were really good at zoning in sf2; you will still be good with ryu because he still uses the same fakes and anti air. there is a spacing guide on these forums, but it is definitely “use at your own risk”. it’s better to just use common sense and experience.
against a character who has poor wakeups, why wouldnt you want to pressure after an untech knockdown?
why would it be good or bad if you arent using dp fadc u1? you only get ultra if you get hit or focus… so maybe you are just kicking too much ass?
^ the FB guide is enirely factual and not “use at your own risk” to any degree. Just thought I would clarify.
Moves CAN be good for frame traps even when they are non-trivially negative on block.
c.hp, for example, is -18. What saves it is that it can be cancelled into hado. And the hado, which is -6 on block itself, can push them back far enough to avoid retaliation from some characters. So you could do c.lk XX c.lp, see that the c.lk is blocked, and then c.hp XX hado to finish. Possibly even FADC’ing the hado into more damage or knockdown.
The problem with close versions of normals is that…you’re close. And a cancelled cl.mk moves you even closer. So unless you keep an FADC available, you could be more vulnerable. Although I suppose you can also cancel into EX hado or tatsu and be pretty safe.
Cl.mp is even on block, guys. I know I’m the one that brought those up as frame traps, but they’re not my goto frame traps or anything. They’re situational. If my safe jump is blocked I sometimes start doing c.lp -> kara throw. Once that starts getting teched, I will use cl.mp to frame trap them. I realize it doesn’t have frame advantage, and it’s a bitch to combo off of. What it has going for it, imo, is how it looks. It’s a 50/50. You get no visual cue to tell you if you’re getting frame trapped or thrown. When someone is using c.lp or c.mp to frame trap, you can react to them standing up and you know they’re(probably) going to toss you.
I don’t honestly use cl.mk to frame trap, but when I mentioned it, I really didn’t mean to just sit there with the -6 frames. The way I’d use it is to frame trap with it, but cancel to ex hado so I get +1 and the chance to ultra on hit.
I’m not saying they’re great, or even good. Only reason I brought it up in the other thread is because someone asked about those normals specifically, and what they could be used for.
Isn’t cl.mp -3? I’m just going off the wiki here. Could be wrong.