Ryu General Discussion Thread: Frame Data, Strategies, Combos, etc

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1741

^ you actually get only 11 frames to react to it (sweep is 5 frames start-up). Thats impossible. Seriously, that would be super human reactions (180 ms), same as reacting to pretty much any light attack. Its a prediction (or a gamble, youd only hit it using twitch reflex which means you havent actually seen the move theyre doing)… oh wait, this is pseudo science, im offending people. I appologise :frowning:

anyway youre only gonna punish light attacks with predictions, unless its a very slow light attack. If this were posible youd be shoryukenning the shit out of everything lol.

1742

Whats the exact motion to land Super after c.hp xx srk. I have a ‘Super’ hard time comboing into it from the above link when I am on the left side. For me personnaly I find comboing into Super is more difficult than to Ultra. Ultra I can do any combo to ultra in my sleep but Super when I am left give me a hard time.

Anyway thats why I am asking for the exact input.

One more thing I was thinking , is it possible to time a straight Hadoken cancel into Super to beat people who start simply neutral
jumping over your fireballs. I know its a risk to waste 4 bar , but may be good vs opponent who simply start neutral jumping predictably when they have a life lead.

1743

There are various ways to do it, but I would do it either one of the following ways:

:db::hp::r::d::df::p::r::qcf::p:

:db::hp::r::d::df::r::p::qcf::p:

For the latter case, you have to do the first QCF in a certain timing (basically faster) so you get DP instead of FB.

other ways would be like

:df::hp::d::df::p::r::qcf::p:

due to laxed inputs and such. You can do it the long way like with 2 QCF at the end, but as long as you did the SRK and the following QCF fast/close enough together you don’t need to. Just keep practicing, I had trouble doing it from a certain side, but I’ve got a better handle of it. You might want to try to alter the way you hold the joystick (or use your thumb w/e) just slightly, see what works.

The super trap no longer exists in Super. You can throw out a FB and cancel it immediately with super, but I’m not sure that it would be at all useful. I think the super would not be too far ahead or too far behind that It’d be a problem for the opponent. IDK try it yourself. I wouldn’t do it.

1744

You can use a super cancelled hadoken to trap some characters into getting hit by the hado. (Not the super. lp hado into hp super at the right range.) That’s the best you can do I think.

If you have trouble cancelling a dp into super, then you can just link it instead. Use lp dp instead of hp dp and do the super as soon as you land after the dp. It does the same amount of damage.

Also, due to “lax inputs” the following:

:df::hp::d::df::p::r::qcf::p:

can also be done with:

:df::hp::d::df::p::qcf::p:

since :d::df::qcf: is all you need for a super or ultra, as opposed to the :qcf::d::df: that worked for the SF3 series. (I actually think the latter would be better to get it done as soon as possible, but the former is probably slightly easier to do. It’s hard to judge since whichever you learned to do first will probably be the easier/more reliable one.)

1745

What is the easiest way to link H.p into tatsu

Just trying to learn some easy links to polish my Ryu. Im trying to learn links but my buttons are not in the standard arcade set up.

1746

Not in the standard arcade setup?

So you’re just asking about hard punch (fierce) into tatsu? That is a cancel. Just do the motion and button press for the tatsu as soon as possible after you press the button for the punch.

At least go through the first 20 trials. That’ll give you some basics.

1747

Hi, I don’t play Ryu but I was wondering if you can point me to some resource on what jumping attacks (crossovers and safe jumps in particular) Ryu (and shotos in general) can beat with shoryuken.
For example, with Rose’s jumping medium kick as a crossover, with the right timing and spacing I seem to beat shoryukens all the time, but maybe my opponents are just mistiming it.
I also tried to set a dummy Rose in training mode and do wakeup shoryukens with different timings (reversal, or with a slight delay) and apparently Rose always wins, but I’d like to see a more general discussion on that. :slight_smile:

1748

There is no resource available for this.

1749

I cant think of a single jump in attack that Ryu’s Medium Punch DP will not beat… assuming the DP is timed correctly. From certain ranges, some attacks trade due to hitboxes, but I’ve not seen any jump in attack beat Ryu’s MP DP cleanly when in invicible frames.

As for crossup attacks, as long as Ryu uses Medium punch DP in the correct direction then this should beat all crossups. It may trade sometimes due to ambigious hitboxes but in general the DP should win.

I do the DP from a crouching position tho so maybe this has an effect also. If your executing MP DP from a standing position then it gives opponents jump in attack more chance of hitting you before you execute the DP.

1750

I believe that, in theory, Ryu can beat all jump-ins with SRK, or if not beat them trade. Ill explain why I say theoretically:

Take Gief. Gief Body Splash has a hug hitbox both horizontally and in terms of priority (by which I mean the vertical distance between the hittable and attacking hitboxes). this creates 2 problems

  1. The splash can be hitting the front at one moment then hitting on cross-up on the next. The problem with this is knowing when to hit the SRK. Say he crosses-up at frame 27 of his jump. If you hit the SRk at frame 26 youre going to go the wrong way. if you dont hit the SRK at frame 27 youre going to get hit. You effectively have 1 frame to hit the SRK (on wake-up). Thats impossible to hit everytime.

  2. The priority of the splash means it will usually trade or beat the SRK.

With these two problems you can see that whilst it is possible to beat a wake-up body splash with SRK, its more likely that you will mistime it and either trade against your favour or lose out entirely.

1751

Good question. The answer of when to block is usually who the opponent is, and how they knocked you down.

my opinion here,

there are a quite a few different jumping attacks that will mess with MP DP.

First, MP DP beats all jump ins head on. This includes bison (dic) j.HP and boxer j.HK. I think i read some posts that stated these attacks could be timed to trade, but i have tested this; and unless someone shows otherwise - MP DP beats all attacks that are head on (not crossup).

Can autocorrect DP beat all crossups? i would say most likely - but crossup can really mess with timing of the DP; so much so that i would recommend blocking against certain attacks. Actually, i recommend blocking most of the time when you have been hit with a untechable knockdown with opponent doing ambiguous jumpins etc…

Watching your opponent very carefully will help determine if you can safely DP them on wakeup - an easy case for ryu forums: if ryu forward throws you, takes two steps back instead of one, you know that you should get an easy wake up dp. If ryu knocks you down with sweep and jumps head on right away, it’s better to block - why risk him empty jump - and taking a minimum 230 dmg.

Things that really mess with DP, this is not a definitive list or anything, just a bunch of stuff off the top of my head…

zangief knee.

chun li j.LK cross up. Also her neutral jump HK.

viper - all of her crazy crossups can make you miss DP - which is why neutral jumping is important.

akuma diving kicks can all be hard to time, but it’s better to go for dp and trade.
akuma cross up tatsu is a killer.

ryu/ken cross up tatsu.

cammy/rufus dive kicks, mess with DP because they can aim for the top of your head make them really hard to punish. daigo vs sako… daigo has the best defense to block all that crazy shit -> sako doing cross ups instead of dive kicks sometimes - and daigo still blocking right.

honda ass drop.

ibuki crossups.

not sure about the rose cross up…

stuff that autocorrect DP beats but looks scary:

blanka j.MK cross up can always be autocorrect DPed. so many blanks try to hop into cross up. just trust autocorrect and you will hit them everytime.

bison crossups

1752

This sounds reasonable. So the only way to be 100% sure the shoryu will win is to execute it on the very same frame your opponent’s jumping attack is supposed to hit you? And in practice that’s humanly impossible to time perfectly (on the other hand it’s definitely easier for the attacker to time the crossup so that it hits “almost” on the same frame as it crosses up).

But what if the jumping attack hits one or two frames before crossing up? I think that should be possible for jumping attacks with good downwards extension. So basically if you do the shoryuken before the crossup, the enemy will cross Ryu during its 2 frames of startup and the shoryu will always go in the wrong direction; and you can’t do it after the crossup cause you get hit before. But maybe there are no jumping attacks that can do that? At the very least Ibuki’s kunai can surely be used that way!

Edit: and then of course there are all of the examples bguile posted, of mixing up different jumping attacks, maybe including some that change the jumping trajectory. Mine was more of a theoretical question: assuming Ryu knows exactly what the opponent will do, can he dp it?

1753

bzzz wrong

http://otersi.com/00_interesting_frames/zangi_bodysplash.png

for reference this is what a jumpin with enormous priority looks like

http://otersi.com/00_interesting_frames/balrog_jhk.png

1754

There’s only a few things I haven’t been able to dp consistently. The biggest problem are the ambiguous jump ins that DP posted. When you’ve just got one or two frames to hit your dp and have it come out the correct direction, it get’s pretty difficult. Stuff like Giefs crossup knee after EX green hand(actually, on this one, I’m pretty sure it’s impossible to get the dp to come out in the right direction).

1755

to beat jumping gief body splash use late dp. i didnt realize DP had already posted a list of crossups. can you link to it?

if you have time, what are you using vs some of the stuff i posted? i find all of them very hard and i usually try to block instead.

1756

Most of them it just comes down to timing that mp input. Usually a reversal will do it every time, because they’re timing their jump as if it were a safe jump. Better players will play games and delay their jump to throw you off. I literally just do my best to dp the frame before I’d get hit.

Gief’s short jump crossup d+lk. Can’t dp this. Block it.

Chun’s nj.hk. This isn’t technically hard to dp. You’re probably just having a difficult time because neutral jumps are difficult to AA in general. Not expecting them to go to the air when they’re right next to you, so it takes a little longer to react.

Burn Kicks. Yea…you don’t have to much luck trying to dp these. Luckily Ryu has something better. C.mk. Timed well, you can punish the burn kick and cancel into a special. Timed badly, you go under the burn kick, and you’re both safe.

For crossup tatsus, just autocorrect dp like you normally would, but delay hitting mp a bit longer. This goes for all of them, although ken’s travels over you a bit quicker than the other two. I haven’t really got an answer for akuma’s dive kicks…don’t have much xp in that matchup.

For Rufus/Cammy dive kicks…I don’t think you can dp those ones, but you can block and punish them. Those dive kicks are only safe if they hit low. Can get at least a free throw.

Honda butt slam. Block it on wakeup. If you’re neutral, just use c.hp. Beats it clean. Focus is another option, but it’s more of an escape than anything. Don’t want to release cuz he recovers quickly, and you don’t want to dash forward and get an ochio throw.

With Ibuki, are you talking about her j.lk crossup or kunais? Her j.lk is very good, but it will still just come down to timing your dp correctly…same with Rose. If it’s kunai’s, I’d suggest finding an ibuki tutorial video. That will show you the few safe crossup kunai setups that she has. Ryu only has two options for these. Block, or focus on the first frame after waking up and backdashing. She has lots of other kunai shenanigans that aren’t safe, and can be dp’d. Anytime she lands in front of you, you can dp her, for instance. You’ll just knock the kunai away and hit her.

A lot of this stuff, I could see people just playing it safe and blocking. I’m not really playing competitively or anything, so I haven’t exactly got that mindset. I look at it as…“I’m fuckin Ryu…you’re not gonna safe jump me.” If I see someone jump, I’m going to try and dp them. When you take into account risk/reward, it might not always be the best choice, but it’s what I do.

edit: Just remembered…Cammy does have a dive kick setup that is safe vs. Ryu’s dp. If you get hit by cannon drill and tech the knockdown, her tk cannon spike after is safe. Dp and you’ll go the wrong way. This what you were talking about? Simple answer for this is just to not tech the knockdown when you get hit by cannon drill.

1757

Hi guys. I hope I’m posting this in the right thread, since its the general discussion for strats and all. What is the ideal time and situation to use the different strengths of his haduken? Like for specific zoning or spacing purposes? Like from full screen away should I keep spamming Hp hadukens and vary the speed from time to time with lp’s? What about medium hadukens?

1758

^ Hi, yah thats the right kinda question for here.

Personally I have yet to find a real reason to use the MP hadoken. I always stick to fierce and light. Fierce is to be used in FB wars cause it travels quicker. Also use it at the end of combos. In terms of zoning what you have to consider is that youre trying to find a balance between 2 things : 1) Limiting the opponent’s reaction times. 2) Trying to slow their jump.

Within half-screen distance I would always say touse fierce FB because its speed means the opponent has less time to react.
Outside of half-screen I think its a 50/50. Fierce is good for keeping the pressure and light is good because it means the opponent has to delay their jump. If you throw a light hadoken from around 3/4 and the opponent jumps, theyre gonna land on the FB (unless they have a super jump or w/e). That means you can increase the chances of recovering in time and hitting SRK.

So overall Id say Fierce is to be used mostly but throw the occassional light to mess with your opponent’s timing if theyre gonna jump.

Light also becomes relevant at advanced and specific times. Say youre fighting another Ryu. Youve got 30%, hes got no health. You hit C.MK, its blocked and are about to cancel to hadoken. Your opponent is going to ultra between C.MK and hadoken. Well, if you choose fierce FB here the FB will pass through him before his invinciblity runs out. Youll lose. if you choose light, your FB can hit and kill him. Youll still get hit by the ultra, which is why I said its useful at specific times, but yah, worth knowing IMO. Its a really fun way to kill a friend too. Theyre sitting there all smug, knowing theyve ultra through your FB, then POW! dumbass light fireball hits them in the face and kill them. Sweet, sweet memories. :smiley:

1759

on a random note, you can c.jab gief’s splash on ryu’s wakeup, 100% of the time.

however, it loses to almost everything else but it’s saved me more times than not.

one character i just can’t seem to dp is god damn blanka. ugh! crossup dp is hard enough as is, but super fast jump means even a normal jump is hard to punish. maybe it’s just online lag. :frowning:

1760

Personally I deal with that (outside of wake-up) by maitaining good spacing. His ambiguous cross-ups happen when he jumps from Ryu’s max C.MP range so I try to avoid that space like the plague.