Ryu changes in SSFIV thread

See: Seth’s EX Tandem Engine. It’s to prevent silly things that could be OP, like 4 EX Mule Kick loops into Ultra. It also makes it no more advantageous than a HP SRK -> FADC -> Ultra, only it can be used with his more damaging Ultra. Sacrificing a lot of utility for some more damage.

Yes, I did think that through. :cool: With the added scaling I could take it being 25% meter, or with it being 50% meter I could take no added scaling, but both was the worst I could picture it while still being useful.

A lot of players do DP just early enough before you leave the ground, but after the the part where they start going up so that it would trade and you will be able to juggle them with other things, sagat with f+hk then ultra…and ryu with (a bunch of things then ultra or just straight up ultra). IMO you should always do trade DPs so that you get more damage out of it, unless you’re lower on health than the opponent by a noticeable amount.

you think that after a wall bounce juggle state, you can continuously repeat the process? this isn’t mvc2 man, and even if you could do it, with your ex kick being 2 hits, scaling would rape the combo really hard at the cost of a full super meter.

fadc uses 2 ex stocks to put you in a safe position, this kick using 2 ex meters and being punishable just doesn’t make sense.

EDIT: Wow, nvm.:bluu:

well, if all else fails there’s still the percent ratio per hit system, so there’s no problem.

**You actually discribed your beefs, at least I know what I am dealing with now. **

I stated them before, just people would rather deal with arguments that never actually existed. Responding this way makes it quick and easy to show whoever i’m talking to exactly what i’m responding to. What you did doesn’t appeal to me because it’s too generalized.

FADC on hit (not block, HIT) only effects completely how you would use DP FADC.

Like i said, that’s great for balancing ryu and sagat, what about everyone else in the game? It’s not OP that cammy can FADC on block, or guile, or dan, or even akuma or ken. Maybe if you singled out those 2 characters not to have it, that’s HUGE, but do you really see that happening?

As for the ultras, i guess that depends on what you define as free. Ryu super is pretty freaking free right now, i forgot to mention that in my post. +11 on block when everyone else is in the minuses? Really? There’s nothign wrong with that considering how easily ryu can gain meter, enough so that it’s not considered a waste for him to use that move? Anyways, i just don’t see taking away those 3 ultra setups as being balanced with giving him more attack options(wow) and a new ultra.

I’m all for giving EX hurricane invincibility on startup in return for making it more punishable on block, that actually makes sense(balance). I said that ryu should lose his decent pokes? Don’t remember saying that, i was thinking about the ridiculous amount of links he has that has him playing like ken and ryu combined rather than just ryu. Almost as though ryu should be doing another trade with ken as far as cr mp is concerned, but that might have people screaming

Yea that’s pretty much what i was talking about. Why should ryu have the fastest sweep? Has ryu historically had faster attacks than ken or akuma? That’s the kind of thing i’m talking about. I know it’s not you but comparing the hitbox on other characters with known weaknesses doesn’t make much sense.

The comment about how rufus’ divekick is retarded, akumas flip is retarded, and sgats tiger knee is retarded are interesting to say the least heh. I mean all three are an easy ultra for an alert ryu? Sagats tiger knee is -7 on block but you people are complaining about EX hurricane being -6 or hk hurricane being -4? Wow. And sagat has to actually think for that move to be safe he can’t just throw it out like “lol block it and the jokes on you”

isn’t the mule kick in the game already as gouken’s fa?

yessir

yeah but a focus attack and a comboable kick that juggles them off the wall are pretty different gameplay wise

I think that’s excellent suggestion, making EX Joudan two bars.

Practically a juggle setup as if it were its own FADC. Being only one bar would just be mean.

Would be dicked and totally unfair if it had super armor. (like EX running bear grab, EX CoD, EX Haba Dash, etc.) But I joke.

Really well thought out, Nitro. Would give rep if I were prem user, dawg.

edit: Actually, now that I think about it, if an EX Joudan would link into a Metsu SRK, so would an EX Tatsu (by theory, since it spin juggles for a few frames, allowing Metsu Hado to link already. But that’s theory, a way of solving that would be giving EX Tatsu more recov. frames, or the timing of Metsu SRK to be strict or more startup frames on it.)

heh

Now 9272 has something else to grieve about.

Also a good point.

Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that SSFIV was already out and that the properties on SSFIV wall bounces were common knowledge :rolleyes:. Like I said, this is the worst I could make the move with it still being useful.

FADC also uses 2 stocks to continue a combo, or juggle after landing a move. Again, look @ Seth’s Ex Tandem Engine. That’s the basis for the 50% meter, IF wall bounce was so that you could re-bounce.

Also, it’s so there’s no additional benefit over SRK -> FADC -> Ultra, if using the Metsu Hadoken. Being able to combo Ultra from anywhere with 25% meter is a major advantage added to a character that already has enough tools.

I’d take 50% meter and no additional scaling. Either way, my idea is to give him 1 reliable setup on a more damaging Ultra, should you choose to use it. That setup could be hit confirmed (c.LP -> c.HPxxEX Mule Kick -> Ultra), but in exchange it would tone the damage back down.

If you have any ideas on additions to him while keeping him balanced, I’d love to hear them.

Edit - Thanks Rave. I was thinking tool the Metsu SRK so that it only landed full damage on crumple stun or wall bounce, not juggle or spin juggle.

common knowledge is knowing that capcom isn’t dumb enough to let you continuously put someone into a juggle state

also, i never mentioned ex kick being comboable into ultra, let alone from anywhere on the screen.

edit

on another note, i feel like if his stepping side kick is included in this game that the input should just be qcf + k , since tiger knee got reduced to a simple srk motion

Because Capcom would never do that in an SF game…

Oh, wait…

But I did. What the hell are you responding to?

Pay a little more attention next time.

EX Joudan, if it even exists and it wallbounces, will probably be unsafe on block so there’s no need to make it 2 bars.

If it’s one bar, and works like it did in 3S (can be cancelled into from cl.HP/cr.HP) it’d be way better than a FADC -> Ultra, which is what I was trying to avoid when conceptualizing it in SSFIV. Hit confirming into EX Joudan -> Ultra? From up to mid/full screen? For only 25% meter? Seems OP, and that’s not what I was going for.

Hitconfirming into it is going to make the ultra do shitty damage so who cares? One of the biggest strengths of DP FADC is that you don’t need to hit confirm. What you’re talking about is no different from Balrog’s combo to ultra, and that doesn’t even cost meter.

If I was only talking about comboing the Metsu Hadoken off of it. I made a concept for the Metsu Shoryuken too, if you noticed. EX Joudan would be one of the only ways to make it deal its 350 - 525 base damage form, and even scaled at 60 or 50%, it’s still a good amount of damage for 25% meter and an Ultra off a hit confirm.

Meanwhile another character in vanilla 4 already has an EX that uses two bars and basically amounts to a taunt that puts the user at a disadvantage.

So again, you want all low crouch moves’ hitboxes to be raised? Or is it just Ryu’s that is overpowered? You said earlier that crouching moves shouldn’t have AA properties, but you didn’t really justify that. Why shouldn’t Chun Li be able to dodge with her crouching moves?

EDIT:
To everyone arguing about DP FADC, it’s -1 on block. There’s no frame advantage. Doesn’t mean it can’t be tweaked, but keep that in mind.

I get you, trust me it’s happened to me before.

Somehow it feels like a glitch rather than a strategy though. Also, I’m pretty sure the same setup is not available to Ken.

Ken’s lp DP doesn’t realy trade often, it’ll just get stuffed sometimes, and his fp.DP is even worse because of the ark and spacing. Getting off Ken’s ultra without a FADC is extremely hard, he doesn’t have the reliability of Sagat’s DP or Ryu’s.

Trade DP’s don’t really work for every shoto, well I can’t speak for Sakura…lol I’m not familiar with her. I’m also not sure what Gouki can do besides a FB juggle…