It’d make it not worth using though. The only notable feature of that Ultra setup as opposed to his others is that it costs no meter. You can use any SRK -> FADC -> Ultra already, aerial or grounded, so yeah, it’d pretty much be gone entirely.
And how would you suggest this be done anyway? There’s only a few ways, really. You’ve got:
Make Ultra’s startup so slow that you’d need FADC to have enough time to Ultra. This would suck, and make Ultra practically useless outside of FADC setups. It’d be too slow to punish most things. It’d probably remove other setups too, like EX Tatsu -> Ultra. and EX Hado -> Ultra, or even EX Hado -> FADC -> Ultra out of corner.
Make the juggle state from LP SRK shorter, or nonexistant. I anticipate this would also mess up Ryu’s damage options off the SRK juggle, like AA LP SRK -> EX Hado. Also highly unnecessary IMO.
Ryu’s Ultra already does low damage and scales heavily. Trade SRK -> EX Hado/Ultra is stupid, as it’s basically a reward for fucking up an SRK. But why should his damage options, or even damage output, be limited like that? What’s the big deal about AA LP SRK -> Ultra?
I play Ryu too obviously and I think that free ultra set-ups are dumb. People are going to spout for sure, “well its your fault for jumping” and well it just feels like early jab dp xx ultra was an oversight. Change the juggle state to nonexistant outside of Fadc. Ryu doesn’t even need a juggle off of jab dp anyways, a meaty fp dp does nearly as much as jab dp xx ex hado and for no meter used. It wouldn’t destroy his game if he lost this one tiny thing at all.
Cause people keep coming in and contributing nothing to the discussion. Much like your post.
One way to “fix” lp DP into Ultra is to make it a multi-hitting move:
The first hit knocks down, as it does now.
The second hit, which hits a few frames later rather than immediately afterwards, resets.
Under those conditions lp DP into Ultra would no longer be possible, and the game would still play the same.
This would render FA’s useless against it though, so EX armour moves would lose if they hit point-blank. I think it’s a reasonable trade though.
How would one go about doing that? Do you mean the DP should put the opponent into a state that only has a small window of opportunity for juggling? Which other moves work like that?
Another thought I had is to change the properties of the Ultra itself. If you do FADC Ultra immediately after a DP, only the first hit of the Ultra will land because it changes the opponent’s trajectory slightly. You have to wait a frame or two before you do the Ultra to have it fully connect. If they changed Ultras so that it altered a falling opponent’s trajectory more than what it does now, then it would be harder to land Ultras on juggled opponents (the first hit knock them higher so that they miss the rest of the ultra). It wouldn’t have any effect on standing opponents though.
the idea is to buff characters that need the buff, some characters like vega (claw), el fuerte or gen. characters like sagat, ryu or rufus should only get “bug fixes”. if you main ryu and you need more invi frames on srk and faster recovery you should stop playing the game.
He meant, from what I’m venturing to guess, is to make them not go as high. Take for example Ken’s fp.srk, FADC off the second hit, you don’t have much time to actually connect his ultra at that point as they’re not very high off the ground.
TL;DR: List at the bottom.
Making lp.srk not knock people to the top of the screen and land perfectly into his ultra would be nice. Wouldn’t mind seeing more horizontal distance rather than vertical distance on the knock down, push Ryu back into a zoning mind-set rather than a rushdown ass beating mind-set.
Lp.srk is just a tad ridiculous. Ryu isn’t overpowered as a whole, but certain tools he has are approaching it rapidly. Ryu’s lp.srk hitbox extends below his feet and stuffs everything under the sun on wake-up.
A friend of mine discovered that extremely meaty lp.srk’s stuff (as far as I can tell) every reversal I’ve thrown at him as Ken except an ex.srk. Lp, mp, and fp.srk’s all got stuffed, my only option was to literally just eat the block stun and deal with it or backdash except given the meatiness of it, he recovers about 12 frames faster than I do and can on reaction punish that back dash.
The reason it works is that it’s hitbox extends way beyond his own hitbox, meaning a wake-up SRK on your end won’t actually connect with Ryu’s body before his lp.srk’s hitbox connects with you.
His lp.srk recovers in 24 frames, 20 frames of block stun on it, which means the only unsafe way to use it, really, is to entirely whiff it. If you do it as a meaty on wake-up you can be as high as +10 frames on block if it’s on the last frame of it’s active frames. (The frame data says 14+10 as it’s recovery, meaning the 14 frames that it rises and the 10 frames of him falling, but for all 14 rising frames it’s hitbox is active)
Ways to go about toning it down:
Reduce it’s hitbox to not extend below Ryu’s feet
Reduce it’s active frames to 9 or 10
Reduce the height of it’s knockdown to remove it’s ability to juggle into ultra for free.
Nonexistant outside of FADC? Sounds unreasonable. Code the game so that FADC retroactively adds a juggle state to an SRK? That would be either really unreasonable to expect for just that particular setup, or it could make FADC much more powerful in general by giving juggle states to moves that float after they’ve already hit.
I know that’s not what you’re going for, but it seems really unlikely that something like that would be implemented.
If he shouldn’t be able to juggle anything off of an AA LP SRK, I don’t think Balrog, Sagat or Rufus should be able to juggle Ultra for free either. And with Rufus and Balrog, you don’t even have to make the mistake of jumping in. Bison has a free Ultra setup too. Should that be removed as well? Somehow I doubt it was all an oversight.
You can say that it’s just one tiny thing, but on the same token, if it’s that trivial, why does it need to be removed? I like juggling LP SRK, it’s a lot more exciting than a plain meaty HP SRK.
The horizontal range of LP SRK’s hitbox may need to be reduced, but I don’t see a problem with it’s hitbox being full body vertically. Stuffing an SRK with a sweep or cr.MK seems pretty dumb.
And again, I don’t see the big deal about juggling off AA LP SRK. It only works if you jump in. You make a basic mistake like that, you get punished heavily. Stay out the air outside of safe jumps or properly timed crossups, and free SRK juggling is entirely a non-issue.
The problem is not really the jump-in punishment, it’s that how LP DP hits can be manipulated via quick rise, so you can get full Ultra damage without spending EX meter. Not even Sagat can do that, and Balrog can’t do it because his Ultra is a charge move.
I was playing my little brother the other day, who has no idea how to play the game, and I was playing Sagat. He was Ryu and he spammed a lot of croucing jabs and it stuffed my mk. tk and ex tk clean several times. What the fuck? Well, at least I learned something new.
you can’t safe jump 3 frame moves like ryu’s srk, and delayed quick getup can easily fuck with crossups (plus, some characters don’t even have a crossup). ryu is definitely an anti-air machine. it’s kind of funny that conversely, he gets some of the best air hitboxes in the game (crossup tatsu, j.hp, j.mk, j.hk).
just as a side note re: balrog, his ultra does less damage from a headbutt juggle than ryu’s, and headbutt sucks compared to srk (four times the startup and low vulnerable! and you need a charge!).
Why would it be so unreasonable? It currently does that anyways albeit with only certain moves allowing for follow up. Just make it so jab shoryu doesnt have a juggle state on normal or ch without the fadc. Hardly game breaking.
Bison has had a jugglable j.mp since st, not such a great example. Rog and Rufus, I don’t know what to say about them. Their whole game depends on landing an ultra from their free set ups. Take that how you want to. I, personally, wouldn’t change rog’s means of hitting ultras/reduce rufus’s options into ultra but, thats just me.
I agree on the jab shoryu hit box being fine. It seems like for alot of people, this is their first sf lol.
And a FREE ultra set up with the current Ryu is a problem because he can deal tons more damage with that super of his off of SIMPLER set-ups then most other characters, (jab dp xx super = TONS of damage). Your punishment for jumping in is already harsh enough, imo, deep fp shoryu does good damage and resets spacing and fadc shoryu xx ultra does alot and gives an untechable knockdown. Seems like Ryu has the aa capitalization game down.
Aye, I outlined that in the post :china:. That’s why I feel that the active length and hitbox itself should be reduced in size. An anti-air move shouldn’t be a safe poke that can lead to big damage and simultaneously punish anyone that tries to hit him during it’s upswing.
God knows who thought it would be a good idea to make an uppercut that can hit pokes sliding across the ground. I’m sure Ryu slams his fist into the dirt before he rises up and does 160 damage.
