Rumoured 1.05 USF4 update

Gamerbee mentioned in a tweet that he saw a 1.05 USF4 update in Japan Arcade Centre.

It’s definitely to fix that sound glitch that happens way too frequently but there’ll probably be some character changes, as they’re updating the arcade system as well.

What changes would you like to see for Cody?

Any one or two of these would suffice given it probably wont be a major update:

Backwards walk speed 0.024 -> 0.028

closeMK now strictly performed with B+MK or F+MK input (I think B+MK might be best so you can do F+MK+MP and get the tiny bit of a kara from farMK). Hitbox expanded downward slightly to make it whiff less on crouching. Possibly reduce damage from 90 to 70.

Badstone startup reduced from 29F to 25/26/27F for HP/MP/LP respectively. Should allow CH clsHP - HP Badstone - crLP - crMP (clsMK command normal if added) - MK Ruffian if near corner. Otherwise just a combo to HP Badstone w/ no followup.

All zonks 16F startup + hitbox size slightly increased OR forward movement slightly increased.

sLP with knife made +4/+7 instead of +2/+6. crMP with knife made special cancelable. (gives a hit confirm to a mid normal with knife. if F+MK is added the sLP w/ knife buff not a huge deal)

knife chip damage increased from 8-12% up to 20-25%

Lastly, and regardless of which one or two of those are added: Make U2 air hit no longer punishable. Either make it hit several of the wrench hits or make the entire move end after the dust kick if it hits airborne. If you do the end on dust thing it’s more than fair because at 161 damage maximum it’s by a HUGE margin the lowest damage partial ultra in the game (Dudley gets 324 damage on air hit U2! Fei gets 260 on air hit U1. Makoto gets 210 and can perform a followup on her U2. Even balrog usually gets ~250+ on airhit with his U1.)

Not saying I want all of that, just 2 of them + the U2 thing would make me ecstatic.

Interesting choices. That cL.Mk change would be sick!

I think that u2 change seems fair but it’s too versatile and can be landed in so many ways, that I think it’d be TOO strong if you could just AA with it and not get punished.

My changes would be:

  • Make all CUs move the same distance as HP CU (Allows you to pressure more safely, chip more reliably and use Lp CU for FADC combos)

  • Increase forward dash distance (This would make CU FADC cl.Lp into cl.Mp hit on every character [hopefully])

  • Make cl.Mp hit from further away (similar to Akuma cl.Mk and Fei Long cl.Hp) That would allow Cody to hit confirm more reliably into more damage (Would also make CU FADC combos stronger)

I think these changes would make Cody a LOT stronger.

I’ll take whatever I can get. More realistic buff would be along the lines of U2 damage reverted. hitting low! And I still want the EX CU throw invinc back.

I like the backwards walkspeed eternal suggested, the CU’s moving the same distance as HP that Packz suggested and U2 being reverted by Canadian. The CH > U2 combos just don’t feel as satisfying.

cr.LK xx LP Criminal Upper is a true blockstring and U2 hitting even at the tip of the dust is all I ask.

Given the low damage it’s perfectly fine to have U2 work that way, as I pointed out the dust part of U2 is only 161 damage IF all hits connect AND it’s at max charge. Also it’s not like if they end it after the dust part they are just going to END it like 0F bam done. It’d almost definitely have recovery just like any other partial ultra. It’ll probably just go use the recovery U2 normally has so it’d be something like 0+7/2x7/47, that’s 67F. It’d be something like -24 on block. That actually falls within the same area as many other ultras. Seth U1 = 1+10/12/34 -25 and gets full damage on AA and goes full screen. Hakans U2 is 0+1/30/42 (72F total). Dudley’s U2 is 0+8/24/48 (-27).

They could even give it a slightly worse recovery on dust part like ~60F or so.

I’m not saying it wont be strong, but it wont be TOO strong. You’re giving up one of Cody’s most important tools in a round for between 80 and 161 damage depending on if you have full charge and get full hits which anywhere noticeably past point blank you aren’t going to. It’ll probably usually be around 100 damage.

It also falters to the same issue other Cody wake up tools, it loses to a neutral jump. Actually having it not do the wrench hits on air hit is in some ways a nerf. You lose the ability to get the 1 hit dust into full combo (not common or consistent so not remotely a big deal) but you also potentially will eat a bigger punish vs some characters. Many slower characters have to chase Cody down during the wrench swings if he isn’t near a corner if they jump and avoid his U2 when expecting it on wakeup or planning for his other wakeup options that also lose to a well timed NJ. This means these slower characters don’t have to chase Cody anymore and can potentially land a bigger punish like Zangief’s U1. It also means that charge characters can punish Cody bigger too since he would stay put if the dust whiffs, this lets them build charge rather than chase him down.

Had you thought about those issues?

Are you trying to say it SHOULD be punishable on air hit or am I misunderstanding this part?

As for the all CUs moving the same distance as HP. Wouldn’t that make LP CU harder to space for safety vs specific moves? If you always move same distance as HP CU then you’ll pretty much always do all hits at nearly as close as possible. I mean it does have it’s uses, it makes knife juggle resets better since you can actually be in range to hit a normal or do a combo like crHP - crLK - LP CU. I just think it would have actually a pretty important downside in some matches. Interesting trade offs though.

I’m pretty skeptical there will be any changes except bug fixes and Capcom doesn’t seem at all interested in the Cody bugs Eternal documented previously. Please let them fix the other sound issues besides the glitch - some of the new character sound effects have major volume issues (ahem Poison fireball), and one of Decapre’s is just plain wrong.

I think most of the reasonable stuff was talked about last time round… and didn’t make it anyway :wink: U2 safe on air hit is probably the clear favourite, but I’m pretty sure the reason this has never been changed is partly because of the effort required to do it. Pretty much all his changes up until now have just been tweaks to numbers or flags. Maybe I’m wrong and it’s not that complicated, but you can see the mess they made with the likes of Sagat’s U1 ‘fix’.

Other stuff:

  • I’d love to see the Zonk startup reduction so they all combo from mediums, although I suspect this is unlikely given the Zonk changes last time out.
  • Being able to FADC some more or even all versions of ruffian kick would be great. There are very few forwarding moving specials like them in the game that can’t be made safe by spending the bar, it seems kind of odd that Cody can’t. LK and EX knock down and MK doesn’t lift the opponent up high enough, so really there would be no combo implications outside of AA EX FADC combos.
  • Close mp activation distance would be nice, but I’d throw close hp in there as well. I want to be able to use close normals on Balrog’s wakeup ffs!
  • EX CU getting throw invincibility back seems a long shot, but it would be awesome. I can’t believe how many times the lack of projectile invincibility has hurt me in games since 1.04 too :frowning: Alternatively they could do something like reduce the startup to 5 frames like they did with Gouken’s EX tatsu so that people need to make a bit more of an effort to legitimately safe jump him.
  • Shaving a frame off forward dash would be good, assuming that would reduce the difficulty of post CU fadc links. Might make Zonk fadc combos are bit easier/actually possible too.
  • I think everyone’s pretty much given up on backdash improvements at this stage. I guess Capcom should be applauded for sticking to their guns or something…?
  • I can’t see the U2 damage nerf being reverted. I think they’ve generally been reducing the damage on the higher non-720/demon ultras. Are there even any left over 500?..

No changes to Cody in 1.05. Not even changes to Omega Cody despite them adjusting 30 other chars in Omega mode.

Gouken Fully charged U2 (never happen lol) = 540
Oni U2 = 525 (highest damage ultra in the game other than oiled Hakan U1 which is 530 and the impossible Gouken charge U2 to max)
Honda U1 = 510
Poison U1 [HCB Throw] = 510
Ryu U2 = 503
Gouken U1 = 503
Ibuki U1 = 501 (HCB command throw version)
Evil Ryu U2 = 501
Ken U1 = 500
Dudley U1 = 500 and goes nearly full screen in 8F now.
Akuma U2 (when not canceled from teleport) = 500
Guy U2 [HCB Throw] = 500
Blanka U1 = 500
Blanka U2 (Anti air) = 500
Makoto U2 = 390 (With Guaranteed HK Axe Kick followup it’s 510, you can also do MK Axe Kick - EX Hayate if you have 1 bar and it’s 554.)
Yun U1 = 375 (possible to do 546 in corner with LP Shoulder - HP Lunge Punch followup, can go well over 700 if you do LP Shoulder - Geneijin). Mid screen w/guaranteed HP Lunge punch followup its 479 (485 if you use EX)

Rose U1 = 498
Bison U1 = 492
Balrog U1 = 491
Rolento U2 = 480
Adon U1 = 480
Vega U1 = 480
Cammy U1 = 480
Juri U2 = 480

About half the cast has an ultra either at 500 or very close that aren’t 720s or a raging demon. EXACTLY half if you count the 480 damage characters.

If you remove the HCB command throws AND the 480 damage AND the chars who use followups it’s still almost 1/3rd of the cast.

Wow, that’s more than I thought, although presumably you mean Ryu/Evil Ryu U2! I suppose the nerf to Cody U2 damage was supposed to be compensation for the intended range increase (fail), but then if that’s the case why didn’t they nerf Dudley U1 damage? Maybe they just use a magic 8 ball for decision making… :wink:

Yeah I meant U2, my bad. Maybe they didn’t nerf it because he almost completely lost the ability to juggle into it because he moves TOO far forward now for his stuff to hit. Kind of stupid TBH. He gets an easy juggle to U2 for 300+ damage meterless or for 1 bar. If he catches a backdash with F+HP he can easily react and combo to U2 with it for a 400 damage combo. Losing juggle into U1 just ain’t a huge deal. He can still use it as an OS vs backdashes.

Or it could be, as I’ve long suspected, they think Cody is really strong already and that is why they give him compensation nerfs with most buffs unlike many other chars. Which is hilarious since pretty much every top level Cody and most non-Cody players agree he is low mid to mid tier at best. Not bad, just really read based and inconsistent with some versatile but not particularly effective tools.

Looks like, if Galtu’s picture is any indication, that there wont even be a stealth change to Cody (like fixing the projectile invincibility lost on EX CU)

That is what i suspect as well. Remember combofiends comments about cody players not knowing how good knife is. They think he is good and they are afraid of making him really good. My problem has always been, is there something wrong with that? Is there a problem with cody even being mentioned in the top 5 or top 10? Clearly capcom doesn’t like the prospect of him being near even top 10.

Last time they thought Cody was top 10 was in SFxT and they nerfed him down to mid tier at best. If it wasn’t for his synergy at getting others in to do all of the work he’d be garbage tier. Criminal upper tag is really good and his crMK is I think the only slide usable in boost combos that doesn’t cause a hard knockdown, this lets him do boosts from really far when combined with his crLK (even if it is 5F)

They even nerfed his knife in SFxT despite the fact noone was using it almost ever. In the dev discussions about him pre-ssf4 they thought his knife was really strong and they didn’t want it to be too good. Yet I think we can all pretty much agree that his SSF4 knife was garbage. Less range he could pick it up, worse hurtbox on crMP and 2F less active frames, crHP was 9F, jLP had only 4F active, jMP hitbox was small, sMP only hit once and sLP was only +5 preventing link to sMP.

O’ well, at least they didn’t nerf him in 1.05, that’s something :smiley:

If Cody ever receives buffs in a later or final update, here’s what I’d love to see:

Improve the distance and iframes on his backdash
Add 20 damage to U2 (nefing it by 40 was way too much). That would make his red focus combos a bit more damaging. We all know they’ll never give us his omega U2 buff.
Make his ex ruffian projectile invincible for it’s entirety
Make his overhead less negative on hit.

That’s it. Can’t/won’t ask for too much.

I love the idea of his close mk being a command normal
I like the idea of the wrench animation not coming out if U2 hits an airborne opponent. Why should we be punished for hitting our opponent?