Rumored Pushback changes on crLP and other DJ lights. Please provide evidence

I’m compiling the unlisted changes for USF4 and one of the things I’ve been hearing about lately is that some of DJs BnBs don’t work anymore and the claim is that his crLP now causes more pushback on hit/block.

DJ’s character files show no change to crLP, sLP, or sLK and the only change to crLK was it was sped up by 1F. Now this doesn’t mean there couldn’t have been a change that ISN’T in the character files but instead handled via the exe or other stuff so the change MAY be real. However at the moment I’m thinking it’s psychosomatic rather than actual.

As USF4 is not on PC I cannot test any of this stuff myself and I’m requesting you guys perform a few tests (and record video) for me.

  1. Record a video of the BnB using USF4 and AE2012 Deejay where the USF4 one whiffs under the same circumstances (make sure to attempt this BnB at LEAST 5-10times to make sure it wasn’t human error)
  2. Record the BnB being done vs both USF4 and AE2012 versions of multiple characters (Ryu, Cody, Fei, Gouken, whoever else. Test BOTH USF4 and AE2012 versions of the OPPONENT to make sure it’s not a hurtbox issue on the OPPONENT.)
  3. Record a video where you push the opponent into the corner then do crLP 3-4x on hit without moving whatsoever. Keep holding crouch for a moment after so that you can see exactly where Deejay ends up. Switch to AE2012 Deejay and do the same thing. Make sure to include the extra time spent crouching after you finish the crLP string in the video so that you can compare a side by side image of USF4 vs AE2012 Deejay. Do this against several different characters with different size bodies (make sure to avoid characters with odd pushboxes during neutral such as Guile/Zangief/El Fuerte)

These things should help clear up whether or not something was changed with Deejay.

Can’t find a conclusive difference on c.lp. I do agree that something feels different though, when I get the time i’ll really make an indepth comparison to see what it is.

Could be just me, but I think the chaining of consecutive lp either standing or crouching seems to be off by a frame or so. This could be the cause of the pushback since they reel back for a frame more before the 2nd or 3rd lp connects. I think this is across the board for all chars, but needs testing.

Well if that is the case it is an in-engine change not in the character files and we need 60fps video comparison

They did add one extra frame of hitstop (different than hitstun) to everything to help combat unblockables. That is what probably what we all feel. The pushback thing may be a direct result of that. Whatever it is, pushback feels worse.

It also may be an issue with the new character’s hit/hurtboxes

I’d been playing Ultra for a couple of days before I saw ppl complaining about jabs and shorts having more pushback. No idea what people are talking about. cr.jab x2 cr.strong still works. cr.jab x2 EX MGU still works from point blank where it’s always worked. cr.short, cr.jab, cr.strong still works. No idea what people are talking about. Interested, but a little lost as to what changed in their eyes.

I think some people are having trouble with landing the Ultra 2 after jab x2 EX MGU where MGU’s launch trajectory was changed. I have found that certain things I used to do for punishes to ultra will whiff. For example, punishing Dudley’s EX MGB with cr.jab xx EX MGU, U2. The ultra will whiff, but that is due to the changes to MGU. Now you can just do EX MGU for easier timing and less scaling though, so that’s kind of a buff. What I’ve found in general with MGU is that in order to land the ultra you have to be very close (which sucks), but landing dash U2 afterwards is much MUCH easier so no more drops.(awesome!)

I’m going to add one last note for the Ultra 2 frustrations. cr. jab x2, st.MK/cr.MP xx MK sobat xx FA lvl2, U2 is still like, 500 dmg.

in training mode pick ultra deejay and 2012 deejay, then go to the corner and do the sequence st close lp > st close lk > st far lk for both versions and youll notice that ultra deejay gets pushed back a little further than 2012 deejay. i believe some of his crouching light attacks are like that too but i dont remember. the pushback doesnt really affect combos to my knowledge but its definitely there

I’m having a hard time consistently getting cr.lp, cr.lp,, ExMGU to hit correctly now… Is this just me or is it related to the discussion here? By the time the MGU starts, the opponent is too far away to connect with the first hit a lot of times. I don’t remember this being an issue in AE

It could be lights pushing back, but I have a theory that the startup buff means that EX MGU becomes active while the opponent is reeling further back than in ae, so the first hit whiffs where it didn’t in ae. No idea if that’s right but seems reasonable to me.

Entirely spacing dependent in my experience. You have to be pretty on top of them to use two jabs before your strong and still connect ExMGU. If anything, with Ultra expanding the first hitbox and having a faster startup this should be easier to connect. Maybe this has to do with the rumored crouching jab additional pushback, but I haven’t gotten to play Ultra myself yet (on PC) so I can’t be certain.

Like I said though in AE I’ve seen ExMGU after jab jab strong wiff a lot if you’re not balls deep after a jump in. Not hard to just drop one jab off of a jump in (and you get more damage out of it), you still have a jump in to confirm the hit with, but without a jump in, jab strong into EX MGU is not nearly as easy to confirm without two jabs, which kind of sucks.

Morris brings up a fair point about the hitreel animation and the buff to the first hit of ExMGU may have actually been to counter-act this rather than explicitly be meant as an actual buff.

Nah I think it´s the new startup of EXMGU that causes this problem.

You can still do 5x cr. lp cr. lk xx lk Sobat on Blanka, just like in AE, and no other combos seem to be affected by any additional pushback, either.

Besides, 2x cr. lp cr. mp xx EXMGU DU2 still works pretty well with a few exeptions which seem to be the characters you couldn´t walk into U2 after EXMGU in AE, so I dont´think theres any more pushback than before.

Hopefully the rumor spread by the initial panic doesn’t stick forever like so many other rumors and misinformation does when it comes to the FGC. Still dumb that it doesn’t combo now but its sounding more and more like EX MGU is the culprit as an unintended side effect of a change that didn’t even do what it was supposed to in the first place. :confused: