I prefer to consider Raizing and Eighting separate entities, because there’s a pretty clear divide between “original shmups” and “licensed fighting games” there.
To be fair, I remember reading that Capcom fucked over most of the dev team behind Street Fighter 2 and so they moved on to work with SNK and developed Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting, and Samurai Shodown.
Because they don’t. Because in the original Blazblue, no matter what you do, V-13 kills you. In the new one, Litchi gets a single combo off and your dead, and Bang is always guaranteed a hit. Grabs don’t fucking work, at all. Several charecters destroy any aspect of footsies. you really have no idea what you are talking about. The things you mention with Street Fighter aren’t even major problems, more aesthic differences that you disagree with.
The REAL basics of fighting games aren’t even what you mentioned. Its footsies, zoning, and yomi. Street Fighter 4 has all of those down to a greater degree than Blazblue. You yomi-ed and got your grab off? too fuckin bad. In this game, you can never land a grab. EVER. It will ALWAYS be teched by an opponent under the age of 80. If you make one mistake against Litchi in a footsie match, you just lost the game. In the original, forget even trying to get in on V-13, fuck man, just pick V-13. You talk about ease of reversal, when things in Blazblue are far dumber, easier, and effect the game to a larger degree. The games are incredibly unbalanced, laughably so, and have just so much stupid shit in their engine. There’s simply no point to play Blazblue, ever.
Having few blockstrings doesn’t hurt SF4. This isn’t a major thing at all. Having large block strings causes more characters to die by chip damage, not a way you want a game to end. These kinds of lame outs are things you want to avoid as a game designer.
The hitboxes being “fucked up” would only be true if they hurt how the game plays at top level. This isn’t true, the hitboxes all work well on a balance scale, worrying about how well they match visuals is irrelvant, this is a fighting game, not a fighting watcher. The hitboxes achieve their intended purpose, and any screwed up hitboxes such as the lariat have been fixed. The hitboxes are fine.
Things being easy don’t matter unless they hurt the integrity of the game, like V-13 in Blazblue. The reversals are suppose to be like that. If you want the game to reward you for stupid behavior, not my problem. If you want to jump more often, play another game, this is Street Fighter, don’t jump. You can punish those who try to mashout and abuse auto-block.
you’re just salty man.
You keepin’ it real.
Real dumb.
Holy Jesus.
All this, and you’re using “yomi” unironically as a verb.
This is exactly what we can blame SF4 for in terms of “reviving the scene” full of dolts.
You actually think Yomi is real and a fundamental part of fighting games? Dude, it’s a joke. To say ‘that was Yomi’ is like saying Let’s Go Justin! Even though Polarity is a troll, I agree with everything he said about SF4.
Yomi’s just a way to break down prediction.
And block strings in SF4 would not be a good idea at all. Enough people die of chip damage as it is.
…You are retarded.
please explain, in detail, what you mean by this because right now its looking like youre just a metaphysics phd
Bull shit, when Sirlin talks about Yomi, that’s exactly what he’s getting at, the various options a player has, and choosing them as a guess or prediction to what your opponent is going to do.
when you say “choosing them” do you mean theyre choosing the yomi? what do you mean by a yomi?
Smash-turned-SF4 player detected.
I understand that a player will never actively consider Yomi, but saying Yomi covers the aspects of reaction time, prediction, guessing games, and mind games. footsies and zoning get you so far, the rest is up to those factors, and the skill of the player to chose the options within his situation, be it as simple as walking up and grabbing an opponent, or something charecter/matchup specific. The kind of yomi that David Sirlin and most others talk about can be left up to those factors, and when you combine that with footsies and zoning, you get the universal basics that make up fighting games.
And no, I’m a guilty gear player Shiki.
so let me get this straight: once a player has ‘footsies’ and ‘zoning’ they can move on to the next level of the game, and begin to understand ‘yomi’
Bitching about Nu is so March 2009 it’s not even funny. The game has a 3 character top tier, and she’s not even the most tournament viable when you consider how many matchup points she gets off of Tager and Hakumen.
Litchi and Bang, while stupid, are hardly in a different league of stupid from SFIV’s Balrog/Rufus stupid and every other game’s stupid.
Throws are in maybe 1 level shittier than SFIV when you look at “counter throw” situations, but at least there’s some damage attached to them.
SFIV is getting the benefit of a lot of well designed characters for them to port into a pretty shitty engine. Footsies are nerfed in it by bad walk speed and clumsiness anyways. Floaty jumps kill so many options.
This needs to be emphasized. If the likes of 8ing and Dimps had more creative freedom, who knows what could happen? But as long as they’re basically hired to be code monkeys for whatever company hires them (Capcom, Bandai-Namco, Konami, etc), they’re not going to get that. And that’s likely why we’re never going to get nice things like Rumble Fish 2 ever again.
No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m not talking about these as independent layers that must be learned. This isn’t boxing where you learn jabs then hooks then uppercuts. What I mean is that footsies and zoning makes up only part of a fighting game. Look at the huge number of guessing games in Third Strike. You can’t attribute any of these features to either footsies and zoning.
Delta, SF4 is incredibly footsie heavy, I don’t know what you are talking about. The only thing that ruins footsies in SF4 is the Super/Ultra meters that can destroy your footsie options, but Meter destroys footsies in a lot of game,the only problem with the Ultra meter is you always have one in a round, and you will never spend it on something like you would your super. The jumps are bad by design. They don’t want people jumping in this game.
as opposed to the other street fighter games where jumping was encouraged
Wrong, they made their own company called arika and went on to make the underrated Street Fighter EX series, which was left mostly unknown partly due to bad marketing and partly due to the general stupidity of gamers.
Its funny how people will defend SFIV, a game that gets simple, fundamental shit wrong that games have been doing correctly for years and was outsourced because Capcom didn’t give a damn. But in the same breath try to defend its problems as “aesthetics”?
Bravo.
Well aware that SF has always been anti-jump. Jumps were obviously better in 3-rd strike though.
The reason is that nothing is safe in Third Strike.