Yoko’s throw has hard knockdown and can be instantly go into his C-Stance into his OTG B move for a combo.
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[FONT=Helvetica]Yes he has. On top of what you’ve seen in the forums, he’s sent me very detailed private messages concerning a bunch of things.[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica]If you feel like there’s something crucial with gameplay or balancing please let us know though. The mechanics are pretty much set and the next version (Unity) is going to play nearly the same, but will look a hell of a lot better.[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica]The general consensus appears to be that the damage scaling needs adjustment. Am I right? [/FONT]
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[FONT=Helvetica]Quite alright. Don’t even worry about it. Thanks for making the effort anyhow![/FONT]
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[FONT=Helvetica]Yeah, this is intended. Having it hit during a grab may be over powered; I’m not exactly sure, but I did design it that way on purpose.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Helvetica]1. This is due to the guard stun carrying over from one hit to the next. I could fix this by reducing the overall stun on air attacks, but it might make them a bit too easy to punish. At any rate, I’ll look into it.[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica]2. Is this actually an issue? I’ve seen a number of games that allow this. You can tech these throws though.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Helvetica]Do you feel that being able to combo out of a throw is problematic? There are a good number of games that allow this. My question is, do you just not like it or is it actually game-breaking? Obviously, though infinites must be fixed.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Helvetica]The first one is an infinite for sure. The second is not actually an infinite, but you can do it for quite a while. It’s not an infinite since every time you hit the ground, the window to do an OTG closes slightly. I’m thinking I’ll make the 6C a soft knockdown any how.[/FONT]
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Speaking of damage scaling, DEC Oliver’s 236X is ignoring scaling. That’s why it’s so much damage. Fixed for next patch. It does ~500 now.
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[FONT=Helvetica]BIN Oliver needs to be redone. Something in his code is causing issues I’m having trouble tracking down, so I need to redo it from scratch.[/FONT]
As I asked above, is being able to combo from a throw a problem?
On another note, hows those combos coming along for the combo video contest?
Oh, I was just stating that Oliver being able to combo after his throw is something that was intended. I’m recording a video for Zippr and Yoko.
Stream today at 3:30
Join us!
Is Zippr’s C-Teleport supposed to stay looking forward then turn around when it is behind the opponent?
We are live!
If you guys get a chance and haven’t already, check out the archive of today’s stream. It was a really fun, first-to-exhaustion set between Liero and I. We demonstrated some of the fun to be had with ‘mirror matches’ with different Radix matchups. A nice bit of higher-level play, though Liero totally outranks me. I say he’s cheatin’ (referred to in most circles as “skill”).
I want to address to things which I don’t like in R.P. Its only my opinion.
What Mugen does wrong:
- Input. It game reads input in one direction until character turns. So when you crossup someone you must enter special s backwards.
- Throws. There is no general script to prevent comboable throws. Someone can cancel normals into throws someone not. And some throws became unavoidable after being hit in the air with ground attack without knockdown. Its not a big problem but some characters have additional mixup opportunity and other don’t. (also this thing better be polished into game feature).
What seems to be wrong with the game itself:
0. damn that breathing hitboxes. Even in neutral animation some characters has it. Just press ctrl+D ctrl+C and look at it.
0.1. Active frames.
- Game as a whole seems dumbed down.
1.1. Windows for wakeup attack seem huge. Its like there is a window when knock down animation can be canceled into anything. So there is no problem to avoid any pressure on wakeup.
1.2. Throw break windows are huge. Even if you have throw which can be canceled from any attack (Natalia Bin) opponent always can just sit in block and mash throw (to break it).
1.2. Most moves are safe. Allmost everyone in P.R. has minimum disadvantage on block and big pushback. So even if you do relatively (-8) unsafe move you’ll be too far to be punished. Of course if you intentionally will do only stupid things you’ll be punished but it so easy to get away with any bullshit you press… it scares me.
1.3. Scaling. I don’t know how to describe why it so wrong to have scaling which makes all hits do a 1 damage after 20th hit in a combo. Scaling needed to balance damage output of footsies(or it better to say pokes) and combos in the game. But in R.P. separate attacks doesn’t do a lot of damage and every possible combo do around 200 damage (if it wasn’t started with super). So scaling doesn’t do what it supposed to do anyway. It only makes me feel frustrated when combo do 170 dmg but when I add super in the end it only do 190 dmg (and super does around 190 by itself).
also
I expected that [FONT=Helvetica]guard stun would be carried over from one hit to another AND crossup [/FONT][FONT=Helvetica]would occur. Its hard to land such thing so it must be hard to block it (without being able to mash something or dash out of danger).[/FONT]
Oh yeah. Gotcha.
It certainly is.
Yeah there’s a ton of HEX vs BIN Supercut in there. Kind of a great example of the differences between the two. There’s also a bit of a reveal of the Unity version at the 3:30:00 mark (roughly). I’m going to do a better reveal of this soon.
Also cheating=skill
Spoiler
- Yeah it’s an issue and I have attempted to find a way to work around it, but it doesn’t work. There’s probably someway to fix this, but it needs more investigating and time.
- This statement confuses me, because not only is it easy to prevent this, but I actually have prevented it. The two exceptions to this are DEC Tsukiko and DEC/BIN Natalia. If you have found some other method to combo into a grab, show me and I’ll fix it.
The unavoidable throw thing is 100% intentional.
Spoiler
- Seriously? This bothers you?
0.1. Of what specifically? Is it there too much? Too little? Which characters? Which moves? - I disagree, but ok.
1.1. You’re half right here. There is a relatively large window (15 frames). The window only starts when you start to stand up. During that time, you can attempt a wakeup move. Except for EX moves, there is very little invincibility. Roy is the only one right now with a great/semi safe wakeup game. Everyone else have massively unsafe wakeup options or none at all. I took SF4 as an example on this one. Yeah wakeups are easier to perform, but you’re still taking a risk doing them.
1.2. The grab break windows are large to compensate for the unavoidable grab mix up as discussed above. Since you can also combo out of some grabs, I felt this necessary.
BIN Natalia can cancel any move into a grab? I think you mean normals only. And even there, it’s canceling into her special dash which then goes into a grab. She’s a mixup character; it’s what she does. You have to guess high/low/throw and you can potentially mash out of one. That seems fair to me. For Binary, though, I may remove the combo-ability of the grab.
I’ll use SF4 as an example here too. You can (sort of) mash out of grabs here too, but if you realize your opponent is doing that, you can offset your attack to compensate and get them on a counter.
1.2(2). Most moves are safe? This heavily depends on what character and style you are using. I would say that everyone has something safe. Some have safe normals. Some have safe specials. There are a few exceptions, but the vast majority of safe moves have no risk or reward tied to them. The actual good moves to mixup with are punishable. I don’t think saying most moves are safe is accurate, but there are a lot of safe moves.
1.3. Like I’ve said before, I am retooling this, but it’s not going to be too different. I’m centering the game around mixups and resets; not huge high damage combos. I think the easiest way to tell if the damage is too minimal is to check the average time of matches. When I play with Tekaxxe, we don’t time out very often even with my turtle play style and his rush/immediately back off style. I seriously don’t think damage output is really an issue.
Finally, I super-appreciate your feedback and all you have done to improve this game. It does seem like, at this point, you’re expecting a different kind of game and you may be mistaking mechanics that you don’t like for actual game issues. It’s a different kind of fighting game that I’m going for, but I can assure you that I’ve thought these things out extensively.
I’ll now ask everyone else, though, just to make sure: EVERYONE; please read through what he said, and my responses to them. What are your thoughts on both ends?
Yeah this is the same issue as you pointed out above. MUGEN counts hold the direction opposite of your character’s facing direction as back rather than opposite your opponent. This causes crossups to not work correctly. I have a work-around in place to allow normal crossups, but combo/block string cross ups wont work until I find a workaround for it.
As you said:
HEX Natalia 2A>throw
DEC Natalia (anything > 236 > throw)
BIN Natalia 2A>throw (combined with 5B>2A is a good tool to do high\low hrow mixup)
DEC Tsukiko super after well spaced 236A\B
HEX Nadia 5A>214EX\Super or after 236B\C on small\crouching opponents.
BIN Charlotte (if opponent was hit (midair or not) her grabs start working on jumping opponent, so you can’t jump out anyway)
HEX Sofie 5A>throw (don’t actually grab because her throw range very short)
Anyone throws became unavoidable after being hit in the air with ground attack without knockdown
(use 5A to test it because it easiest way to test it (5b in general harder and 5C usually has effects on hit).
I’m just not fine with it. I don’t like when reliability of hitconfirms or ect got sacrificed for… I don’t really know what for. But in larger scale it not game breaking issue for me.
But I was asked to write it.
Oh forget about active frames I forgot to delete it. At first I thought that attacks that have more active frames somehow has more “priority” but then I figured that attack which moves you forward and have lots of active frames makes your character ram into vulnerable boxes that stays after some attacks (and some times even ram vulnerable boxes during opponents active frames if hit box of your attack placed further than his). And its totally logical.
I meant DEC its a typo.
It mostly depends on advantage on block and pushback. If move has -4 on block it can be punished only with move that has 3 or less frames startup and if you can reach opponent. HEX Carlotte’s 214A has -7 on block but after 2A2A2A2B214A she is far enough to hit opponent with tip of her 5C so you need a move that can reach her from afar within 6 frames. I mean such thing is beyond any character or style. You just can’t have tools to punish it and not be a broken character.
I just posted things that bothering me. Some things may be a game issues and some just my personal complaints.
[LEFT]finally got my rig fixed and upgraded some parts, here is that vid i promised lol, enjoy[/LEFT]
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I just realized you could use the mugen clone IKEMEN if you want to have netplay. It’s a bit weird to configure but it does take the same coding language as MUGEN. I can’t really help with you with it at the time but that’s the only way to have mugen online.
this might help as well: http://code.google.com/p/ikemen/wiki/Description
just realized i used the wrong combo for roy in the last part of my video lol sorry, ill post a roy combo vid later. the one in the vid is nothing lol
Thanks for this! I’ll look into each one and repair them accordingly. I’m probably going to remove comboable grabs though.
Fair enough. Fixed for next patch.
Have you tried this against someone? The reason I ask is because the way I generally handle long range attacks is to give them low priority. Basically, if you were to try attacking with a 5A after that string, you’ll lose in priority when the other person attacks (assuming they use a jab). You’ll be too far away to really punish, but this sort of thing isn’t unique to just Rumble Pack. Hex Charlotte has these tools because she has zero reversal options and extremely low stamina. If you’re able to get in on her and maintain pressure, she has no options except to push block or attempt to dodge out; both of which are good, but having to rely on them puts you in a disadvantageous situation.
And that’s perfectly fine. I say, keep it coming! I just hope you’re actually enjoying the game.
Yeah, I tried this before and it mostly works, but it was such a hassle to get it to be fully functional that I ultimately gave up on it. I may revisit it in the future, but I’m not too sure of when.
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Awesome stuff! You definitely found some cool stuff here.
So the next patch is coming soon and it’s going to be a big one. Expect a few new fighting styles for a few people as well as a bunch of internal changes. This patch will likely require a full, new download and a small patch will not be available.
One of the big things coming up is the totally reworked damage scaling system. It is now set so each character can have their own individual scaling system as well as each of their individual fighting styles (if necessary). On top of this, the harshness of the scaling has been reduced by about 2%. It may not sound like much, but it means your larger combos will do more and the peak where you stop doing damage has been shifted. Before, this peak kicked in at around 20-30 hits depending on the character, now it’s around 50-60.
Also, I’ve expanded on some character’s ability to combo. I’ll leave you to discover these.
Finally, here’s the combo contest winner:
[media=youtube]1JUm8iYGCpw[/media]
Congrats PandaBeary!
So I’ve decided, for the next patch, to include a few new fighting styles as well as an update to the semi-dead online version to hopefully make it much more playable. There are some major issues to resolve, but I believe it can be done and is worth it. Give me a week or so and all will be well.
Just posted some of my alternate costume concepts:
Feels like there’s no activity at all in this thread. Looking forward to the next update.
Maybe we can do something about that. Any interesting approaches or strategies you’ve discovered so far? Any fav playstyles or characters? Any awesome new tech?
-GK