how do you guys think RR is as anchor?
This has been discussed a lot already. He’s got some tools as anchor, but his definite best slot would most likely be 2nd. There’s teams that make it work, like Kusoru’s team, but having an assist that helps will definitely make his teleports safer.
Better not be hoping for any comebacks.
His tools are really nasty as anchor, but the only person I ever see run Raccoon anchor are players who use Frank with him,
I have a friend who runs: RR/Felecia/Doom, she actually prefers having him on point.
I remember getting into a big stinking argument over RR anchor with members of this thread a while ago. I still stand by the following points to support the placement:
1 Both characters get RR’s assists. Whether you’re rocking Spitfire or Log, they’re both very, very good. Having two characters instead of 1 use it can make a difference.
2 X factor helps mitigate one of RR’s bigger weaknesses; damage. Kill combos aren’t hard, and they’re honestly pretty fast as long as you’re not using Rock n Roll. Faster kills = more X factor time.
3 Anchor will usually mean more meter as his disposal. More traps are always good.
4 Being in anchor ideally means Raccoon has less characters to deal with. I personally find, assists or no assists, it’s harder to deal with most teams if they have all their assists/tricks/etc at their disposal. When they no longer have access to safe DHCs, 1-2 of their assists, braindead kill combos, etc, I find it helps level the playing field a bit better for raccoon. This may sound like a universal truth, but some characters combat a whole team solo a lot better than others do with X factor; Doom sucks at it too (as long as you’re not in the corner) whereas Akuma doesn’t care how many you have.
5 The speed boost makes his mixups that much more deadly, and opens up a few frame traps/links that aren’t normally possible.
That all said, I’m still fairly inclined to agree with the best spot being second. I need Frank second though so in my case that isn’t happening. Even then I still look for chances to get Raccoon in because him + shopping cart can be a better matchup than Frank + RR assist in some matchups. I’d take anchor over point though; not because he’s necessarily a better anchor than a point character, but more that the utility of having his assists in the back + his anchor potential far outweighs his point potential.
Both chars get RR’s assist when he’s second too. (Raw tag tech)
Damage isn’t RR’s weakness anymore. (Raw tag tech) His weakness is his normals being absolute shit in comparison to almost everyone in the game. He has great mobility, great tools, superb DHCs and top tier worthy assists, shit normals. Like Joe. Except Joe manages to get over his shitty normals with Voomerang lockdown.
Springs don’t help when you need to make a comeback.
I’m inclined to say RR is actually one of THE worst anchors in the game (out of the viable characters). Arthur was an overrated anchor for the longest time, and still is for a lot of people just because they look at his benefits and not the amazingly huge flaws as well, ESPECIALLY now that lance lockdown doesn’t work anymore. RR’s? He can’t carry his team. He needs a life lead to anchor, and that’s not even what an anchor needs to be able to do. If he doesn’t have life lead, smart players should never get reverse OCV’d by him.
Anchors have to be able to save entire teams on their own that failed to at least take one character off before them, Vergil being the biggest example. That is the definition of “anchor” as UMvC3 is right now. RR CANNOT do that.
I mean Vergil can just swords and that’s the end of anchor RR right there. Neither one of you can touch each other assuming spring is on the ground, but you’re the one who will suffer if you can’t touch Vergil.
Raw tag tech isn’t a magical cure-all that fixes your problems. For starters, you have to get a touch to actually employ it. And if you’re not in the corner/will push on your first air series, it can’t be a confirm that entails using your ground bounce. No touch, no tech, and no assist for your anchor. Second, I personally find raw tag tech unreliable outside the corner. Bear trap ground bounce is fickle enough as it is, and having to get the proper air series to rocket skates, still get your ground bounce into puddle is far too fickle for me to rely on. While I’m sure some find it more reliable, I also imagine there’s plenty who agree with me. Most importantly, let’s even say you can reliably get a touch with raccoon and employ the tech regardless of the confirm; you’re still severely limited by what characters you can put in the anchor lot to really leverage it. The 10 hits of the puddle + whatever you used to confirm are going to put you right around minimum scaling, and you’ll have used your groundbounce in most instances. So you need a character who can combo without a groundbounce, has high minimum damage scaling, and can still combo extend fairly deep into hitstun decay. That’s a pretty short list; Vergil, Viper Haggar, and Strange come to mind offhand and that’s about it. There’s more I’m sure, but the list is by no means large. Finally, let’s say you use raw tag tech. The character who was initially anchor dies. Guess what? Back to Raccoon anchor.
People look at anchors primarily and occasionally as assists. I strongly encourage you to change your perspective; while both those factors are important it’s about the cohesion the third person brings to the the other two characters regardless of their order. An anchor is the glue that holds the team together, not the backup plan in case things go wrong (though having that is nice too).
…I really don’t see how it’s hard at all, but okay…
The anchor dying is your fault, not RR’s. If you dropped something or didn’t tag back out, RR/your anchor character can’t be blamed for that. You screwed yourself making RR try to anchor then. Now snapbacks? That’s different.
Anchors have to have the ABILITY to turn the tables. Without it, they’re not reliable anchors. Plenty of characters have an assist worthy of third, but can they be depended on if things go wrong? Those are all or nothing teams; no backup. No get out of jail chance card. (Lolanchorhsienko)
Haggar/Spencer/IF/Vergil/Dante/Wesker/Task/Shuma/Chun/Arthur/Strange/Viper/Mags, that isn’t even everyone who can do at least half health off of it and DHC for a kill (or at LEAST do WAY more damage than RR could without using unreliable ass boulder loops). I’ve tested almost everyone, not just theorized. Tested.
I didn’t say hard, I said unreliable. I don’t trust Bear Trap to consistently groundbounce on an Air M S Rocket Skates Bear Trap. If you can do that in real matches consistently enough that you can bank on it, my hat’s off to you.
I don’t buy the “it’s your fault, not the system’s” argument. Things go wrong in matches, regardless of how good the plan is. Good systems have contingencies and backups. And even if it was 100%, it -still- banks on Raccoon getting a hit to bring in said anchor and then bring Raccoon in to do it again. Again, needs a contingency; he won’t always do it.
Ok, let’s look at these shells. Haggar/Spencer/Wesker/Chun/Viper all do little to nothing to help RR’s neutral game (with Vergil not being much better), so having him second isn’t that much different from anchor in terms of him landing hits (whereas on the other hand all 5-6 of them would vastly improve having RR’s assists backing them up). If Raccoon dies, out of those I’d definitely not want to be left with Haggar/If at all, and would prefer not to be stuck with Spencer/Shuma/Chun/Arthur/Strange.
Now, the damage off Raw Tag. Let’s assume the most ideal scenario for bounce preservation/damage; Wild Ripper S MH Oil Bomb puddle in the corner. About 290k damage, no bounces used, and opponent in the corner. 16 Hits. Minimum damage scaling off Ss and Specials hits minimum at 23, so you’re not too far. Rock n Roll DHC at the end will add another 200k, so RR by himself is contributing 490k. Meaning the character tagged in has to do the remainder. Doable? for the low health characters or the especially high output characters, absolutely. But I imagine once you start trying to kill characters with health above say, 900 the viability will start to taper off or at least require more than two meter. Mags/Wesker will taper off quick, Viper/Arthur/Spencer/Dante will require more than 2 bars as you get to higher health. Haggar/IF/Strange/Vergil will do nicely, though out of those the only one I want as a backup anchor is Vergil. Task/Shuma/Chun I’m not familiar enough with their combos to make a judgement upon, but admittedly their minimum scaling is strong enough that could warrant decent follow ups (Shuma with 25% across the board? sheesh). And again, this is assuming ideal starting combo; the prospects get a lot worse if you confirmed with something like a shrapnel trap or a log trap + Spencer anchor (not to mention a log trap hit confirm will have different hitstun decay). Are they all more damage? Absolutely. Guaranteed Kills with 1 DHC? not for a lot of them. (Also, why no Doom on the list? He’d be a good candidate.)
I disagree with two strong points + 1 assist anchor being an “all or nothing” strategy. In fact, I consider it the opposite; you’re putting enough strength into the neutral game that by the numbers, you will get more touches than your opponent. Do x factor comebacks happen? absolutely. In fact, they happen enough that they’re not uncommon. But the majority of games are won by the 1st/2nd characters, not the third. Typically in matches if (and that’s a fairly big If, Nova and Frank often do it by themselves) I’m down to Raccoon he’s cleaning up one character, and with X factor + a bar two that isn’t hard in the slightest. Are full OCV’s with him hard? Oh man yes. But it still happens.
I’m still kinda confused on how you can have a staunch view on the matter, especially when you consider your own teams. Joe/RR or Joe/Frank aren’t going to typically kill the point character on the first touch, which means you’re banking on getting multiple hits via a stronger neutral game than your opponent (and understandably so, Joe’s neutral is fantastic). Putting Raccoon in the back works on the same principle. Not to mention RR’s easily a better anchor than Frank is regardless of level (Joe v Raccoon I could seen an argument going either way).
Personally, I wish this thread wasn’t such a naysayer thread. @.Guy. I get that you don’t think it’s a good idea, but why waste time saying how bad of an idea it is rather that discussing the options he DOES have? If you want to focus a discussion on RR in second, why not just make a new thread for that?
I’m playing X23/Dorm/RR and it’s an absolute blast and a hell of a team (Meter neutral Thor TODs, rediculous mixup pressure backed with Log, and X23 gets easy confirms from anywhere on the screen). Normally, I’ll end up DCHing in RR and playing anchor Dorm at some point but he’s perfectly viable in an anchor position. (Notice I only said viable, not dominating or anything like that.) Ideally, I agree that a true “RR” team is gonna have him point or 2nd backed with a strong lockdown or beam but so far I’m absolutely loving this team.
As far as RR anchor, I’m getting a surprising amount of mileage out of Tunnel H > Mad Hopper > hi/lo or boulder unblockable to get my hits. On hit, as long as you’re to the left you can follow up on hit too. It’s a bit expensive, but if he’s on the field in anchor I usually have 5 meters and XF to fall back on, so I’m not too worried about that. Anyone know of any other ways of making safe solo pressure aside from the full screen Spitfire > Teleports? Unless you’re specifically punishing something, Teleport L and M are looking pretty worthless solo.
In XF3 S rocket skate spam does 33k worth of chip each hit, tho it’s hard to confirm much off it unless they’re on the ground. Still nice for some spammy goodness and just filling the screen with shit. If you can get them turtling from the spam, swapping out an S for and rocket skate H into hi/low pressure seems to work pretty well, too.
In the lucky chance that you have the life lead and anchor rocket, I feel like you should pretty much always win since that’s pretty much what RR was made for. If you’re having to chase someone down that’s playing a super lame runaway, those are the ones that you just can’t do much with. Against people that are just trying to back up and chuck plasma it’s easy enough to teleport punish.
Just started making videos (using RR as an anchor) here’s the link to my channel if anyone is interested. http://www.youtube.com/user/JvsDGaming/feed?filter=2
[media=youtube]4paqqCdIBbQ[/media]
I think RR should really be played second, but there’s a lot to gain learning him anchor. I’m running Cap/RR/Vergil and when it comes to RR/Vergil there’s a lot of swapping. I’m trying to figure out a hardtag combo from RR to Vergil (I’m new to vergil so right now i havent found one that justifies doing it since i burn swords earlier than i want, but if someone has a combo already please share!!!). Going mine > devil trigger or swords is a good way to avoid a bad match up and given Vergil log assist is just stupidly awesome with all his cross ups. Also vergil can convert :df:+:h: with log trap making helm break really really good.
RR seems to have a lot of swapping tech any way so I don’t think I can reliably keep my team ordered one way a whole match. He’s very dynamic and while he has issues in anchor spot, he definitely has advantages worth exploring.
Actually decided to run Cap(SS)/Vergil(rapid)/RR(log) instead. Vergil makes great use of log assist and can turn all cap combos into 2 meter TOD. I’m still not grand on the idea of RR anchor, but X-factor does smooth over a lot of his damage issues and makes his mix ups even more brutal. My main issue with RR is how do i get in without an assist??? His normals are so bad and spitfire, tunnel doesn’t fool anyone on it’s own it seems. I can play a great zoning game with him, but when i need to attack all I can really seem to get is harassing them with :f:+:h: and then hit confirming into combo or canceling into something.
How do you guys set up the pressure to get started? I fight against taskmaster who can rape him in zoning and I’m at a loss on how to win that match up.
What I usually do is assert myself with Net Trap, Log Trap, cr. :h:, and Mad Hopper if they’re aggressive. When they realize there’s not much they can do and you corner them, Log will eventually hit or you could air grab them (assuming they’re holding up/back constantly). As far as the Task matchup goes, lots of :h: burrowing along with what I said can really frustrate Taskmasters into making a mistake. Anchor Raccoon could be very deadly if he’s stocked with lots of meter for Mad Hoppers. Having meter has proved to be invaluable to me whenever I was left with Anchor Raccoon.
Yeah, meter is pretty much a must, I feel like XF3 is pretty much 2 dead characters if the incoming character doesn’t have air options.
Amazing how Mad Hopper turns people into idiots tho. I love when they think they’re being smart by jumping on it to set it off and give you the free boulder unblockable, lol. Or go to jump on it and give you a free crossup.
Lol yeah I almost always catch every Haggar doing that. He’ll jump down on the trap only to get get hit by float cancel 
, :s:. That mix up is just too fast for people to block, I guess.
Lately I have been learning Rocket Raccoon and using him on anchor. (Spider-Man{a}/Doctor Doom{B}/The Coon{y}) and I have been having decent enough success(even a 14 game win streak and ranking up 2 ranks online). My raccoon still is pretty basic but both Spidey and Doctor Doom can benefit from log trap assist. With Spidey I can do air dash(call log) webzip for ambiguous crossups and hit confirm from just about anywhere on the screen with webthrow :l: or crouching :h: into webswing and convert for an easy 800k combo. Also I can use Doom missiles for fuzzy guards and lockdowns and then extend combos with logtrap if need be. With Doom 2nd I can go for TAC combos that build tons of meter and psych people out so I can also do TAC fakeouts with super jump meaty setups to staircase enemies with Spider-Man. Also Doom middle IMO is his strongest position on a team with Spider-Man, plus he gets logtrap assist which he can use pretty well as well as extend combos with as well. Usually between Spider-Man and Doom, by the time anchor Raccoon comes in he has 3-5 meters to play with. Also saving X-factor gives him kill combos without using much meter. Sure there are better anchors but I feel like he is overlooked a lot.(and I enjoy him more than anchor Doom which in my opinion, is the most overrated anchor in the game) idk I am going to stick with Raccoon anchor because I like him.
I now believe that running Rocket without Coldstar assist is a mistake.
RR with coldstar is def. a killer shell. I’m trying to run him with Repulsor Blast and see if the same setups carry over for corner Oki.